Roofing Success

The B.E.S.T. Known Framework: Unlock Explosive Profit With This Simple System with Brian Niebler

• Jim Ahlin • Episode 285

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Most roofers are obsessed with more leads. But 90% of those leads? Wasted. Forgotten. Gone cold.

Brian Niebler, co-founder of Roof for Marketers and now JobNimbus Marketing, reveals a SIMPLE system to turn your existing leads into closed deals. This new “B.E.S.T.” Framework can explode your profits without spending more on marketing.

🧠 B = Build Your Audience
🎯 E = Establish Perfect Messaging
📈 S = Scale Your Ads (Omnipresence = Top of Mind)
💰 T = Turn Leads Into Revenue

If you’ve ever felt like leads are slipping through the cracks, this episode is your wake-up call.

And if you're spending thousands on Google Ads and only converting a few leads… wait ‘til you see what Brian reveals. 🤯

This system works for any roofing company doing $2M+ who already has a warm list sitting in the CRM. All it takes is strategy, segmentation, and staying in front of the customer until they’re ready to buy.

Watch now and see how the top companies are building omnipresence and closing more deals from the same leads you already have.

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Links: 
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https://www.instagram.com/itsbrianniebler

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SPEAKER_00:

We turn the leads into revenue.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. This is where it was the biggest challenge from us as a marketing agency. Correct. Yes. Because there are some people out there that can't sell. That's true. It's a good amount of people. There's a few contractors. Won't name any names. Uh-uh. That never answer their phone. That's true also. And then they wonder why they're not getting business. Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Aline and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. Today's episode has been a long time coming. Years and years and years, Brian. Decades. Maybe not decades. I'm not that old. You are not that old, that's for sure. I am here with the co-founder of Roofer Marketers, which is now Job Nimbus Marketing, the great Brian Niebler. Thank you for having me. On short notice. On short notice. But here's the thing about Brian that you guys might not know. I talked about Roofer Marketers and Job Nimbus Marketing. Brian was the guy behind the scenes, uh, really designed the frameworks that we executed on for our roofing clients. So I wanted to have him on because he's been really working on ever evolving our strategy from the best known roofer into the best framework, uh the best business system. I don't know exactly what you call it yet, but what what what are you what do you what are you what are you calling it now that it's it's a little bit more comprehensive?

SPEAKER_00:

It's simple.

SPEAKER_01:

It's best known framework. The best known framework. That's awesome. So if any of you haven't read the best known roofer book, go to Amazon, grab it. We published that in 2021.

SPEAKER_00:

A while ago. In digital marketing years.

SPEAKER_01:

In in a decade, a century in digital marketing years, right? So a lot of things have changed since then. Um let's for everyone, how how did you you know I mean, how did you get into the roofing industry?

SPEAKER_00:

Into the roofing industry. Well, I ran a marketing agency before I met you. And uh my very first, well, I would say one of our first clients was a roofing company. Yeah. Um, you know, did I know anything about roofing? Absolutely not. But I also had a number of other clients in, you know, any other industry, and you know, roofing is the one that we got the best results for, or I got the best results, I should say. It was just a one-man band back then. Yeah. Um, and it just turned into a snowball effect, I guess. Everything worked out well, and you know, met you, and then we decided roofing is the game. Like, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01:

I I've had a lot of fun in the roofing industry. I think you have to.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we all have had a lot of fun in the roofing industry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Um, you know, we're both part owners of a roofing company now. Yep. You are you a part owner of a couple roofing companies? Couple roofing companies. Couple roofing companies now. So essentially a CMO role in in most roofing companies, a certain chief marketing officer. So getting all of the getting everything dialed in uh as you did in the agency days for a roofing company from the marketing perspective and then into the the like through the the lead follow-up, right? All the way through that that appointment set is really where you've spent a lot of time building out uh the best framework. So let's talk about that a little bit. Um talk through the kind of the the how you came to the best framework.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. So I think one of the main problems with marketing, in just in general today, for any types of service businesses, is we I think we forget about we forget about the leads we actually have in reality. I mean, a lot of like marketing agencies, marketers in general, we you know, we run Google ads and we do SEO and we try to get all these leads in. And and yeah, they come in, but what happens if we uh don't convert those immediately into jobs? They kind of get forgotten most of the time. I would say 90% of those leads just get thrown off to the wayside. Yeah. And I think we see this as a big problem in marketing, right? It's because it's always about leads, leads, leads, leads. But we forget about, you know, who are the people, who are these leads? What are they thinking? And so the best framework is really here. I I put it together because I think if we forget about that 90%, once they don't close immediately, uh, it's taking those that 90% and staying in front of them for forever until they actually do come in and we can close them into actual jobs.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And that and that concept is something that we've kind of talked about for years to the to the roofing industry and being omnipresent, being everywhere or omnipresent, being everywhere. Um let let's walk through like the who is a good company that could implement this type of framework in their business.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So so what we're really talking about here is warm leads, warm audience already. Okay. So um, you know, these are people that, you know, one have probably seen something that you've done before, whether it be a a video you put out on social media, or maybe that was a Google ad, someone came to your website and left, or something like that. Maybe it is an email opt-in, someone that's on your list or a prospect you've had in your CRM forever. That's who we're targeting here, right? And so in order to have an audience like that already, you're probably already an established roofing company. You're probably done, you know, upwards of two million, I would say. Got it. Um you have some sort of audience. You've done some sort of marketing before. And that's really what this system is is positioned towards. So it's more of a accelerator. Accelerator, correct. And that's not to say with omnipresence, I mean you still want to do that on the front end, right? As a smaller company. But this system we're focusing on everything we already have. So explain best. Best. So we we try to keep it simple here, right? Uh best known framework. So best, the acronym. So B, it's build your audience, build your perfect audience. E, it's establish the messaging. Perfect messaging, I should say. S is scale your ads, and T is turn those leads into revenue.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. So what I heard from you in in the first one, build your audience. Let's go into that. What are what are three like what are the the core things that a roofing company needs to do to build their audience? Because I what you had said was this is this isn't for the new company that that doesn't have any business yet, that hasn't done any marketing. So let how do you how does someone build their audience or how do you refine that, or what what are you doing there?

SPEAKER_00:

So I mean I would just think of, you know, one, we could just list out what that audience is. Because there's so many different places that people have probably seen your company both offline and online, but now that we're spoke we're we're focusing on the online. So let's talk anybody that's ever visited your website, right? Anyone that's ever viewed a video that you've put on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or wherever, any of those. Um anybody that's viewed a YouTube video, right? And then we're talking to also maybe people that have been in your CRM forever. They've been sitting in there, um, maybe it was a deal that just didn't get closed, prospects that have been in there, um, you know, old leads, form fills, any of that stuff. So I would just make a checklist and think about all those different places that people have have probably seen your company at one point or another, that can be turned into an audience. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you said something that was an aha moment for I think a lot of contractors, which is their CRM. Um anyone that's and ever been entered into a CRM can be used in an audience. Correct. Now what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it means um they have officially entered your hemisphere, right? So you can take their information and you know, on Facebook you have the option to, well, you can export it from your CRM. Doesn't matter what CRM you have, you can do it, and you can upload into Facebook as its own audience. Depending on what stage or pipeline they were in, you can also separate those audiences out. You know, did we get in contact with them? Was an appointment actually booked? Uh was an estimate put out and just never close. All three of those are three different audiences, in my opinion. So you can segment the audience. You can segment them, correct.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So now that so, and then so you have your audiences from your CRM. Um, how do you collect visitors? It might get a little technical for people, but how do you collect visitors that have watched a Facebook video or something like that?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the nice thing is it's already been collected for you. It's already right there. If you have a Facebook page and you know you've put out a video and people have watched it, Facebook already knows this. It's right there. So what you need to do is you can go into the back end of the business manager and you can actually create these audiences that have already been created, essentially. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So it sounds like it's important. So this is but this is on their business page, not their personal profiles. Correct. Okay. So for people that do personal branding, this might change a little bit, right? Like you're not going to be able to do this from a personal branding perspective, but if you have a business page. Before we carry on with the episode, let's give a shout out to one of our sponsors. Roofer, let's get real. You're great at building roofs, but are you great at building a steady stream of leads? That's where Job Nemes Marketing comes in. They know the roofing industry inside and out, and they'll help you dominate Google, Facebook, reputation management, and everything in between. If you want more quality leads, more book jobs, and more growth, visit the link in the description or the sponsors page on the Roofing Success Podcast website. You're not going to be able to do this from a personal branding perspective, but if you have a business page, all of that data is.

SPEAKER_00:

If you do have a personal page and it's the professional version, you can also use those audiences as well. Yes. Yes. So but you need the audience.

SPEAKER_01:

Why is the audience important?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the audience is important because I mean, those are the guys that, again, they know who your company is, they've at least seen one mention of your company before. And when you think about the homeowner, right, that's gonna, you know, for a roofing company, I mean, they're all in different stages, right? There's gonna be people that, you know, are looking for, you know, maybe the if you've ever talked about the marketing funnel, right? You know, you've ever a lot of you probably know what this is, right? You got top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, and bottom of the funnel. Like just as an example, I know you give this example.

SPEAKER_01:

We talk about it all the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like what's what's the color of what color is the what's the best color of roof, right? They're not bottom of the funnel because they're probably not ready to buy today. Yeah. They might be mid to the top funnel. So we can segment those because everyone's in different um parts of the buying journey, right? And each one of those segments we can turn into a different angle. Now that's one piece of it. The other piece is like, what are they actually looking for, right? So is there, you know, if they're looking for stuff around like what's the cost of a roof, that's its own angle in itself because they're very interested in that sort of stuff. Um and so we can go into that a little bit more, but there's there's different ways to segment the audience, and that becomes important because that's how we're gonna get those ads out to stay in front of them and keep them interested. Got it.

SPEAKER_01:

So once you've defined, once you've built these audiences, you can use them in Facebook, you can use them in Google. You you're they're essentially that foundation that you're is what I'm hearing. What we're talking about here is they're the foundation, right? We're starting with the person. Yes. Um so we're starting with the person. Who is the person that we're targeting? Well, they visited our when we're kind of this is essentially a a warm list. Correct. Right? It's a warm list versus a cold list. It's not just um, it's not just get a bunch of names and phone numbers or like target a specific geographic location. This is let's take these people. So you could say, hey, these are all the people we closed. This is now we can say that find people like these people as they've closed before. Yes. From developing good audiences, what have you seen on from the results of that on the other side of that? Because that's what that's really what people care about, right? Like, great, I have all these audiences, I uploaded them, and my Facebook ads still sucked. And we'll move on to make talk about how to make all of your ads better, also. But like what have you seen if it's the right audience versus just a cold audience in a geographic area?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, uh like I said, everyone's in their own buying journey. We you talk about this all the time. Where are we in the customer journey? Well, if you hit them with the right, you know, if everyone's got their own pain points, right? You know, what is your pain point for buying a roof? Is it, you know, I need financing, is it uh I got storm damage, you know, is my insurance gonna cover it? There's all sorts of different angles. If you can hit them with the content that's gonna really tear into their heart, right, that's the ones that are are likely they're gonna continue to follow you and are likely gonna be the converters later on. Got it. So what we've seen is when we do this and we we figure out where they're at in that buying journey, and then we create the vi the content and the video content in the ads that will target that specific pain point, typically it'll convert three, four times as good, essentially. And that's what we're looking for. And again, we're talking about an audience that got left at the wayside too. Yeah. Like these people, you know, a lot of times the roofing companies forget about them. So we're just talking about even converting people that otherwise wouldn't have been touched again.

SPEAKER_01:

So now you you kind of led into your next point. What is E investing?

SPEAKER_00:

E is establishing the perfect messaging.

SPEAKER_01:

Got it. So that's what you were talking about is like where are they in the buying journey and what can we say to them at that point of the buying journey that makes them react, raise their hand, interact with us, make give, make a phone call, fill out a form. How are we developing good messaging?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, uh again, I mean, it's going to depend on what your industry is. So in roofing, I mean, we've always talked about it. Like, what are the number one questions that your sales reps get at the door? I mean, that's there's typically the same ones over and over and over again. We just talked about them too. It's like, you know, uh what can I get financing? Is, you know, uh what's going to be covered with insurance, you know, what are what are things I should be looking out for? What are some red flags? You know, all that sort of stuff. Each one of those is its own segment again.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So um, that's who we're targeting with the ads.

SPEAKER_01:

So the messaging, though, is you know, we I talk about it a lot on the or have talked about in a lot of talks and podcasts, right? It's mark market who you're marketing to, right? Your mark your message and and how you're getting it in front of them. And that's kind of what you're following here, but you're getting very specific.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Because one message never works for everyone. That's right. Everyone's on a different part of the buying journey, and you know, you gotta, again, get in touch with them at that specific point.

SPEAKER_01:

But if you're a if you're a marketing manager at a roofing company or if you're an owner, what what are some practical things that they can do to determine the messaging? Like, what's a good connecting point for them? Something simple that that they don't have to like, man, I have oh man, I'm thinking about all these different people, where they're at in the buying journey. What would be some simple things that they could do?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I mean, the simple ones would be what we just talked about. I would just ask your sales reps, you know, let's come on in, let's do a meeting quick, write down the top five things you hear every single day in terms of selling out there. Yeah. Um you know, other than that, I mean, I I mean I think most of you already know what the core pain points are. Like, right? I mean, it's pretty similar, it's not just roofing, it's it's every home service uh kind of company. It's you know, it's always about cost, it's always about uh trust, um, and then it's always about you know the work that's being done. So there's a number of different things in each one of those categories, in my in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01:

So how do you differentiate messaging? Or should it just be the same messaging that everyone else is using?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's gonna depend on like most of the messaging I think is pretty much the same in terms of those categories. Now, in terms of how you handle specific situations and like your core values and stuff like that, um, I think that's where it would get unique. But you guys, you know, hopefully you already have that um, you know, together for your company. So that's something that, again, that goes in that trust column. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I talk about things like uh one of the a great roofing company that we worked with for many years, they ended up selling the PE uh with MHI. They, you know, they they essentially created the frame of messaging in their market where, hey, this is what you look for in a good contractor.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it was like the top five, four or five things were things that you could say about any good contractor.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, like the fifth and sixth were things that you could only say about them. That's a good one, yeah. Right? Like things like that that um but but tying that into the messaging, it's just knowing you know, knowing where they are at in that journey. So now they're in your database, they're segmented out as like a uh sit no sale, they they haven't, they're they're not, uh, they haven't converted. They've been in your database for 30 days, 45 days, 60 days. What how do you get their attention again?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, that comes along with uh you know the audience building, right? So we split them up into the audience, and then we figure out so what what we like to do is we call them uh V loops, essentially video loops, on on each one of those paint points. Might choose three to four to five of the top ones that are really gonna hit. And we've already talked about those just now, right? So um now it's about you know, again, uploading those audiences into the specific ad frameworks, segmenting them in back into your CRM or wherever you're doing your um outreach with uh for leads and stuff like that, and then um and then creating the messaging around that. So for example, you know, if we're doing something about cost, like what's the cost of a roof, stuff like that, and maybe they they hit a page like that before, they had questions around it or whatever. Um, you know, I'm gonna create uh what we like to do is uh educate, educate, educate, action, call to action. Okay. So it's uh, you know, that's again it's going back to what are they asking, answer those questions. What are the questions along that topic? You know, what's the cost of a roof typically in this area? And then um, you know, why why is it what's the difference in cost between this versus this? Um and then in the final one, it's like, you know, send them somewhere, right? So for if it's a cost one, maybe there's a there's a pricing calculator or something like that. And that's your final, hey, come on over here and take a look and get get that for yourself and see what it is.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. I know you've been working on pricing calculators for for the roofing companies you're involved in right now, with ours and and the other one you're involved in. What is what's the impact on that? Like, how is that converting? Because I everyone at, you know, I was just at a Marcus Shared intervention, he talks about price all the time. And uh all of you are so afraid to talk about price, right? Uh Roofal has made uh a great name for themselves in in pricing. Uh Roofar has, I think, uh the the estimator, online estimator that people can fill out and stuff like that. But as you're running ads and and giving open and honest estimates on pricing, I I came from the mortgage industry, as a lot of you guys heard you know many times here. There's something called a good faith estimate. It's uh an estimate, huh? Think about the wording there. An estimate in good faith, right? So, like you're not trying to trick anyone, you're not trying to just, you know, but so so this new kind of framework that you've been running to these calculators, what is what has the outcomes been there? How how has that impacted, you know, opt-ins or lead flows? I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors. If you and your team aren't trained on AI yet, you're already falling behind. Competitors using AI are generating more leads, closing jobs faster, and running cleaner. The AI Roofing Revolution gives your team the training to implement AI so you stay ahead, not scramble to catch up. Don't wait until you're losing. Get trained now at the link in the description or the sponsors page of the Roofing Success Podcast website. What has the outcomes been there? How how has that impacted opt-ins or lead flows?

SPEAKER_00:

So, I mean, I'll give you a little nugget here that we've discovered. And we were always kind of skeptical of this, and this is nothing against those, the the pricing calculators or anything like that. But from a perspective of myself and a lot of other people, I think you'd agree, is that like people are not dumb anymore when it comes to online marketing. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm I'm pretty sure. They've seen it all at this point. Um and I think what what one of the problems is is people, you know, hey, get a get a quote real quick, right? Get an instant price. But then they get to it and it's like, oh, put in your contact information, put your address, put this, the this. And you know, a lot of us just want to kind of get an idea on the price, and we don't want to give you our contact information. You know? Um, and so something I think we've kind of discovered is um, you know, why not just give them a pricing calculator that they can play around with on their own? And then if they've they've figured out, like, oh, okay, it's you know, it's between 10 to 15 grand, great. I actually want to get a an actual, you know, exact price quote. Well, here's the call to action. Here, you know, you can get that exact price quote, just put in your exact information. So I think what we've discovered is, you know, in doing something like that, it makes people feel a little more uh like you're trustworthy. You're not just trying to grab their information. And you know, the the nice thing about that, and we're talking about audiences, if someone hits a page like that and they still don't enter their information, they're not a dead lead, you guys. Like that's right. They've hit that page and we know they've hit that page.

SPEAKER_01:

There's so many ways to stay in front of them.

SPEAKER_00:

And guess what? We can stay in front of them forever now with all that information about the cost.

SPEAKER_01:

And really online and offline.

SPEAKER_00:

Online and offline, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? Like you the there's post, there's mailings that you could do too. Mailers you can send, like on from an offline perspective. There, you know, you I mean, a lot of times you can have their address, you can knock their door even. Yep, yep. Maybe a little creepy. Yeah. Maybe a little creepy, but you can do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you sure can.

SPEAKER_01:

So but okay, now we have like the perfect messaging, and some of that perfect messaging that's a little bit more unique, thinking about the buyer too, is what I'm hearing from you. Like, we got to think about the buyer and what where they're at in the journey, what they want to do. Um, they don't want to no one wants a salesperson at their house. Yeah. Like, it's not something that we're like, hey, can I have another sales pitch?

SPEAKER_00:

I think we really tend to forget about the buyer as business owners. And that's a problem because it's a big problem. Because they're our customer, they're the ones buying from us. So you really got to think about it from their perspective and think about it from your own perspective. I mean, if you're gonna be going out to a company and um, you know, they're invasive and doing all this other stuff. I mean, you know, you got you gotta think about that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

We built our audience, we've established our messaging. S is we're gonna scale our ads. Scale our ads. Okay. Talk through that as a kind of a high-level concept.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, so I mean, it goes back to what we're talking about with omnipresence. Yep. Um, you know, everyone thinks about ads and we think about, you know, running Google ads and all this other stuff. Well, you know, there's all these platforms now that people consume information on, you know, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, all that sort of stuff. And when we talk about omnipresence, we talk about being in all those places. Well, now we know, you know, hopefully we've established from this audience building that we know what part of the buyer's journey they're in. So now we we can kind of build these uh video content, uh build all the video content, any of the ads that we need to, and and now we stay in front of them consistently on all of these different platforms. And and I want to be clear about being consistent because you know, if someone goes to Facebook and they're, you know, it's about and the ads are about the cost sort of stuff, it should stay that way on Instagram too, unless they've converted and on YouTube. And everything needs to be congruent. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to establish an omnipresence consistently around that same sort of subject to that audience, no matter where they go.

SPEAKER_01:

That's where, you know, we've talked about this forever, but it it's like that's where we it's like how why are they every time I see, every time I open my phone, every time I go to now you're I mean you could even do streaming now and you you know, like on TV and YouTube TV. I mean it it's like it's a lot of people watch YouTube on their TV. So your YouTube ads are on the TV. Yeah. Um we run ads for this podcast on the on YouTube, and it it I was like, wow, we have a lot of viewers on like watching on a television. Yeah. It was crazy to me. Yeah. Um and so what does that trigger in people from a psych psychological perspective?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh it's a it's a top-of-mind thing, again, right? Um, you know, with roofing specifically, we're talking a high-ticket item that people, you know, may not be ready for at this point in the thing. And uh there's been a lot of research done around these topics, and you know, you might have heard like the seven touch point type thing. Well, in 2025, we're talking more of like 30 to 40 to 50 touch points before someone actually makes a decision. People have to tell me more about touch points. Talk about touch or tell the audience more about touch points. So I mean what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01:

They're like, what do you mean touch points? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Touch points, like uh we're talking like an impression. Like we're talking, um, you know, maybe you opened up Facebook and you're scrolling and then you see, you know, you see this roofing company, right? And then you kind of forget about it, but then you go over to YouTube, you're watching a video, and you know, they pop up there. Um, you know, and then you get that that postcard in the mail from them. And it's just them seeing you consistently, all these parts, and they it makes any company seem bigger than they actually are. That's the biggest one.

SPEAKER_01:

The biggest thing. We've talked about this with a lot of companies on this podcast. I remember um uh Travis with Planet Roof uh talking about he did a rebrand from from their first roofing company into Planet Roof, and and I think he said he only had like two or maybe two or three rap trucks. Maybe one. I can't remember what he said. I'll have to go back to the episode and and think about it. But like it was very few rap trucks, but it was good brand seen all like always. It does start with a good brand, yes. It's it's it's it's just a non-stop, like they just started seeing it everywhere, and it's like, wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm sure most of the people that that come in, they're like, oh, I've seen you everywhere, right? Everywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

When your customers say those words to you, you know you got it.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like listen for that. Listen for I see you everywhere. If you're not hearing that, you're not doing it right.

SPEAKER_00:

You got work to do. Yeah. You got work to do. But if you're hearing that, it's a beautiful thing to hear.

SPEAKER_01:

It is a beautiful thing to hear. You know you're onto something there. Conversion rates increase when they see you everywhere.

SPEAKER_00:

And and the the nice part about the scaling the ads in the omnipresent way is that it's really not that expensive. Like if we're talking about how expensive, I mean, a lot of you run Google ads, and you know how crazy expensive it can get 20, 30, 40, 50, 100,$150 per click, we're talking about. I mean, how much is a lead then? We're you know, beyond that. The nice part about having these audiences is, you know, one, that Google ad that didn't convert, remember, they clicked on something, they just cost you$50, and they didn't put in their information or give you a call. Well, you still have them in the system and you can remarket them on all these platforms for pennies on the dollar.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Pennies on the dollar.

SPEAKER_01:

What is a good marketing budget for that type of for the remarketing side of things?

SPEAKER_00:

I would say, I mean, you could probably get away. Now, and again, this depends on how many different audiences you're going after and and how big they are. But I mean you could give it a range. Let's do a range. You could do 10 bucks a day. Okay. On the low end. On the low end. On the low end. Uh maybe fifty bucks a day. But you're you know staying in front of these people on all these different platforms, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01:

But even at fifty dollars a day, what's that a month?

SPEAKER_00:

Is nothing when we think about it in terms of well again like comparing it to Google Ads to cold traffic and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01:

So I know uh I was speaking with a contractor down in Orlando recently uh on one of the RSRA calls, and I think his lead cost from PayPalClick was like eight or nine hundred dollars per lead, right? Like so when you think about it that way, it's like, man, I could it's not that you don't want to it's not that you want to stop pay-per-click, but it's it's an in addition to, right? Like so a lot of this stuff is in addition to. I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors. I talk to contractors every day that feels stuck. Not because they're not working hard, but because they're missing the structure to grow without chaos. Or their culture's falling apart because their team's unclear, unaligned, or just burned out. And when change hits, they're reacting instead of leading because time and priorities aren't under their control. Day 41 Thrive helps to fix that with proven strategies for growth, culture, and leadership that actually work. Ready to thrive beyond the storm, visit the link in the description or visit the Roofing Success Podcast website on the sponsors page to start your journey today. It's not that you want to stop pay-per-click, but it's it's an in addition to, right? Like so a lot of this stuff is in addition to.

SPEAKER_00:

And and to compliment to that is you when you a lot of you may not know this, but from a marketing perspective, like a really good conversion rate on Google Ads is like that would be a really good one, is like 20%. So that leaves 80% of the people that came into that funnel. That clicked. That clicked.

SPEAKER_01:

So what you're talking about, let's what let's let's clarify that per people. It's called a landing page conversion rate. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

A landing page conversation rate.

SPEAKER_01:

So they've clicked, they hit your landing page, only like on an outrageously successful.

SPEAKER_00:

Outrageously successful. Landing page. Landing page. I would say the most successful ones I've ever seen that we've done, and I still have ever seen, maybe like 25 percent, maybe up to close to 30, but over a span of time. Over a long period of time.

SPEAKER_01:

You might get like a good month where you're at like 40 percent or something. Another one. But over an extended period of time.

SPEAKER_00:

But on average, we're talking less than 10 percent. Yeah. And that leaves ninety percent of the people that clicked on that ad came to your landing page and didn't do anything. Aaron Ross Powell So they typed something into Google. Roofing company near me. They clicked on an ad. Clicked on it. That costs you$75 or whatever it costs.

SPEAKER_01:

But they didn't convert.

SPEAKER_00:

They didn't fill out the form, they didn't make a file. They got to the landing page and they said, nope, and then they just went back, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So on the good side, 80% do that. 80% don't call. 80% don't fill out a form. That's a good frame for people. And then and and so you you don't want to lose them. Like keep in front of them. Turn the remarketing out.

SPEAKER_00:

You know the intent is there. You know they're there, they know they're interested, but maybe who knows? There's a million reasons why they didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_01:

Um what about Google ads? I I think let's just talk about that for a second because I think the Google search ads, not the display remarketing stuff that we're talking about. Google search ads are a challenge for roofing contractors. Um are there any ways what are you seeing that is working in today's c today's environment?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I I I've always stressed on this, and I think the biggest thing is it's just add congruency to what what the landing page says.

SPEAKER_01:

We haven't talked about that. It's crazy how it's amazing. How many people run Google Ads without congruency. What do you mean by that? Give me an example.

SPEAKER_00:

Um so I mean, like, let's just say, for example, say you're even running a campaign for um a metal roofing. Like, say you're running a metal roof campaign, just something around like, hey, yeah, um, you know, metal roofing company near me. People click on it and it goes to just the homepage web of the website that just says something random about, you know, you know, number one company in Chicago, and then it's just like a bunch of random stuff. Like it, there needs to be congruency on what people are clicking on. If it if they're clicking on Minneapolis Roofing Company as the headline of the ad, well, that landing page better say Minneapolis Roofing Company right there. Or if there's some sort of offer that you're putting in that ad copy, like you know, whatever it is,$2,500 off your roof. If they click on that and they go to the landing page and it's nowhere in existence, well okay, what was the intent behind that? They probably clicked because of the offer.

SPEAKER_01:

Great financing options, and there's nothing about financing. Right? Like there's how do it's congruency in in that messaging. So you've developed your audience, you've built the perfect audience. We've established the messaging. We've established the messaging.

SPEAKER_00:

We've built and scaled the ads. Scaled the ads in T. We turn the leads into revenue.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. This is where it was the biggest challenge from us as a marketing agency. Correct. Yes. Because there are some people out there that can't sell. That's true. This is a good amount of people. There's a few contractors won't name any names. Uh-uh. That never answer their phone. That's true also. And then they wonder why they're not getting business. What does it look like? What does a perfect process look like to that from lead to appointment?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so I mean, this has been talked about millions of times, but it's always speed to lead. Yeah. It really is. I mean, let's think about this again. We're talking about from the buyer's perspective, from the homeowner's perspective. If I'm not getting a response right away, where am I going? I'm going right back to Google or wherever I came from to find the next person and give them the call. Because I mean, most of these guys, like, they're ready to go now. People have ADD. They gotta, they're gonna go on to the next thing, right? Yeah. Um, you know, uh, we talked about touch points. It's not just touch points prior to them entering their information. That is a big piece of the best framework, but it's also touch points after they enter their information. Got it. Um and a lot of people we were talking about even after they input their information, it's try to get in touch with them once, and I didn't get in touch, so you know, on to the next, right? On to the next. And again, that's where they go dormant in the CRM and they just sit there. Um so what we're what we really want to do is, you know, one, we gotta be answering the phone if they're calling in. I don't care how it happens, it's gotta happen immediately. Um, you know, if you don't have uh an after-hours service, you need to hire someone. If they're not great, then you need to figure out another option to that. Yeah. There's a lot of AI voice options now that even just will get the job done, honestly. Um and so that's the first one. If it's a form fill, someone fill types something in or it's a it's a Facebook message or whatever, there better be a response immediately, right? And it's gotta be via that platform too. This is another thing we we we ran into and we figured out that um you know, if they're typing, if they're submitting a Facebook lead directly, a lot of people aren't like they send a text right away. I mean, they were just on Facebook. So maybe you should get in contact with them via Facebook. Let's de dig deeper on that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

You're running an ad on Facebook, it's it's a messenger ad. People reach out through Messenger or through a lead form even on on their and they get a text message right away.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a switch in people's brain, right? Yeah. I mean, I was just scrolling on social media and I just submitted something on Facebook, but now I have a text message over here, and you know how many notifications we get on our phones. Nonstop. Nonstop. So like it's it is it's kind of a it's a psychological thing, people being able to switch from even just apps, right? Yeah. Facebook over to SMS or whatever. Yeah. If you can keep them where they originally submitted it, that's gonna be your best option. Yeah. Now, if they submit it through the website, right? Form fill is very common. Yeah, um, you know, that's where you try all the options. What we used to do, and I still think we we do it, is we place the call immediately. Yeah. It's an autocall, goes out to them, um, press one to connect, you know. If it connects to them, it and we automatically pick up. If that's if there's no one available, we're sending an SMS text message, we're sending an email, and then we're doing that every few minutes in a sequence until we can get touch with them, and along with manual calling until they they pick up.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's extremely important. And that's the leverage that people don't understand in their uh in their marketing, right? They think that marketing stops when the lead comes in. Right. But it but there's there's there's a lot more to create efficiency in that ad spend, in that marketing budget.

SPEAKER_00:

And then we we can go beyond that and say it's not just once you get in touch with them for the first time. You know, if you get the appointment booked, well, now you got the time between getting that appointment booked and actually going and showing up, right? And there's a lot of things that can get lost in translation there too. So what are we doing there? Again, touch points, right? Text messages about what to expect, maybe a video sent over to them, like, hey, you know, this is what this is what you can expect, and these are things to watch out for, and this is what we'll be talking about, so you can prep them ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I I like how you've simplified the the framework, right? Like, uh, you know, I mean we I th I thought we did a good job with the best known roofer book and and really putting that in a in a in a digestible format, but I think you've I mean the evolution of this is is even more simple for contractors to understand and to help them out. Um what do you what do you you know we'll we'll get links to all your stuff in the in the description, your new YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. All your new social media content that you're gonna be producing around the best business framework.

SPEAKER_00:

My goal is to really create a movement to help, you know, any local service business, honestly, but especially in the in the um you know the home service industry, um you know, it this is all possible, it can all be done. I just think a lot of people forget about this piece because everyone's taught about the certain about the leads, leads, leads, and they forget about you know what what that buyer is actually thinking. And I think, especially in today's day and age with all the nonstop information coming at you, you know, you really got to be on the same wavelength with the customer.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, well, everyone check out Brian's new content. This has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thank you for tuning in to the Roofing Success Podcast. For more valuable content, visit Roofing SuccessPodcast.com. While there, check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise, and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tech. Also, join the Roofing Success Facebook to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest project. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share, and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry websites. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening.

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Jim Ahlin

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