Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
STOP Hiring Wrong: How to Build a Roofing Team That Lasts with David Dees
Most roofers hire the wrong people.
They’re too quick to say “yes.”
And too slow to fire.
That’s what David Dees did at first. And it cost him MILLIONS.
But then… he fixed it.
In this episode, David shares how he went from supply rep at Beacon…
To building a roofing company that wins new construction, service work, and multifamily jobs — in under 4 years.
You’ll see:
✅ Why your hires can sink your company (fast)
✅ How to build a team that actually lasts
✅ What to do if you’ve hired the wrong person
✅ And why some builders FIRED him… and then came back later
This is a must-watch for anyone trying to build a real roofing company. Not just sell jobs.
It’s all about people, systems, and culture.
David shows how to hire right, fire fast, and build a team you’re proud of.
Links:
https://forceroofingsystems.com/
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How do you go from selling roofing supplies to building a roofing company that wins multifamily, new construction and high-margin service jobs all within four years? In this episode, we're talking with David Dees about what it really takes to build a professional, well-diversified roofing company from the ground up. From starting Force Roofing in 2021 to rebuilding trust after hiring missteps, david shares how to grow with intention, leverage vendor partnerships and avoid the chaos that sinks startups. David is the founder of Force Roofing Systems, a Middle Tennessee-based company that's built a name on service consistency and smart diversification. Drawing on a decade of experience with Beacon Supply, he brings a unique perspective to product knowledge, project management and business development. What makes David's story stand out is his humility and honesty. He has fired builders, rebuilt teams and turned mistakes into growth. Whether he's pricing repairs, nurturing builder relationships or training project managers, david shows what it means to play the long game in roofing. If you're tired of chasing chaos and want a clear strategy for scaling the right way, this episode is packed with lessons you can implement today. Let's dive in with David Dees from Force Roofing Systems.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. David Dees, how are you today? I'm good, jim, good to see you. Force Roofing Systems. Man, we've known each other for a while now. I've gotten to watch your whole journey and this is it's fun for me to do this. I think we met you might've been listening to the podcast and reached out and years ago, right, and we started having conversations and you were asking questions, maybe about, hey, what you know, who's good to know around this topic or that topic, and, um, you know, maybe a good sales coach or maybe a good this or that, but, um, so we've gotten to know each other over the years. What? Uh, tell everyone a little bit about your story and how, how, how force roofing came to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I started on the supply side of the business, worked at Beacon Roofing Supply QXO now for nine and a half years and built a really good, started my career there and built a good foundation, really enjoyed the supply side of the business and, you know, really learned a lot about product knowledge, estimating, you know, learning about our customers, different types of businesses, whether they were, you know, production, turnkey roofer, restoration roofer, commercial, residential, key roofer, uh, restoration roofer, commercial, residential, uh I.
Speaker 3:I just found it so fascinating to, to, to you, meet with those contractors, learn about their business and, uh, kind of you know, see their niche, you know, and, um, you know, I, uh, I guess April of 21 is when you know we started force roofing and you know just how. Do you know it was one of those times in my life where I was very interested in doing the entrepreneur route and I needed to do it before it was too late. So we started force roofing and here we are. You need a four and a half years in and you know we've made some success, we've had some lessons learned and we're still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how was that? You know, I mean that was a big, that was a big leap, a big leap of faith that you made right. I mean you were you. You were a regional manager for beacon at the time, I think, if I remember right, sales director.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and so you had a sales team and, yeah, helped them all grow their business and um, you know, different, different markets so different. Decent corporate job yeah, yeah, paid the bills. That was really. It's a really good company to work for.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they take care of their employees. They, I, you know, I think training is the number one thing for them. Every month there's some sort of vendor training. That was, that was the perk, right, that's how I got to learn the business. You know, everything from asphalt shingles to roof coatings to single ply membranes, you know, you know, modified, and that was a consistent base. You know we were, we were having mandatory trainings all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. So then, what, what, what was in you that that? That it was like man, I got, I got, I got to do something on my own here. I got to leave this corporate environment, the steady paycheck, and kind of make the leap into entrepreneurship. Where do you think that came from?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd say that I'm a competitor and I like to compete, I like to see if I can build something. I will say that, out of all those years selling contractors, I would remember leaving their offices, just really just looking up to them going. Man, I envy that guy, envy that guy. I, um, I think so highly of him or her, I, I, uh, and they're really building something. They're they're they're providing jobs for people. They're they're building a, a foundation, they're they're they're giving back to the community and is is great as it was to have a steady paycheck and benefits and all that stuff. I never really did look up to my leadership that way, and don't take that the wrong way, of course I looked up to my leadership and they're all wonderful, but I never did envy them like I did. A roofing contractor or an entrepreneur, you know, you wanting to do something a little bit bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it is. There's a big difference there and you know there's there's people that are, you know, excellent, high quality people in corporate leadership and you know, you know executive positions all over the. You know many companies, but it's different when someone. It's different to watch someone build something from like from nothing. Maybe that's part of it, I don't know. For me, like it's a, it's a really special thing in the to take care of their families and take care of their people and and and watch something like that You'd mentioned. You got to see the niches. As you were seeing, man, these are storm restoration companies. These are different commercial. What, as you were making that leap, how did you decide? This is what force roofing is going to focus on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd say that my, you know, my goal was for. That's kind of how you and I met right, we wanted to come out looking like a first-class organization. I didn't want to come out looking like Chuck in the truck with a magnet on my truck and you know a website that you know I did a tutorial on. You know I wanted to, I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, like having you with Roofing Marketers, build our website, you know, really launch our SEO, help us try to get out in the marketplace.
Speaker 3:You know our niche is is being a local service provider and you know we we are a storm chaser, but you know we do multiple types of roofing. I guess that's because we can't, you know it's because we have that knowledge. But you know, on the residential side we do everything from repairs to retail roof replacements, insurance, roof replacements, asphalt, shingles, metal. We know how to kind of dissect a roof. There's a lot of houses here in the Middle Tennessee market that will have three different types of roof systems on there. We don't have to call our supplier and ask them to do the takeoff for us or the material is for us.
Speaker 3:We kind of pride ourselves in that. So I guess our niche would be, you know, we kind of really want to work for most folks that are, you know, people that are just looking for a roofing contractor. And we have a diverse business. We do new construction, so we work for production builders, we work for custom home builders, we work for homeowners, property management companies, general contractors. We don't own the market by any means. We have a lot of good competition here, but we definitely have, you know, been able to build a brand that folks can trust and count on, simply just for showing up and answering the phone.
Speaker 1:You know that's that's amazing how far that goes. Yeah, that goes a long ways. So so, really, you've diversified your roofing business. Within your roofing business, I've had a couple of contractors that I've had on the show that I feel have a similar model. So what did you start with? Because I know you started adding things. Did you start with everything, or did you start with? Hey, we're just doing this first.
Speaker 3:I'd say that you know I always wanted to get into new construction. I did a lot of that when I was at Beacon and learned a lot about it, but that takes time. That's more on the business development side of stuff. We started out, you know, just me in a truck, you know, going around getting the word out using social media platforms, me going to insurance agents asking to be a preferred vendor. You know, started out just doing residential re-roofs and repairs. Then I'd say it took about 12 months and we finally got in with some builders. They gave us a chance and I guess they knew my background and understood that.
Speaker 3:You know I wasn't just trying to do a one time sales, trying to build a relationship. So we started out there and then we had our first big break in commercial roofing, probably about year two out there. And then we had our first big break in commercial roof and probably about year two and that was actually because of of you guys at Ricker marketers and SEO. We had multifamily listed on our website and we had a customer call in and said, hey, would you be interested in bidding this? And of course we said yes and we were fortunate enough to win the work. So that was, that was kind of our you know now, now we do all all their roofing, um, you know. So I think we just kind of keep falling into it a little bit. But we, you know, we're out there, it's on ground where we're trying to talk to everybody and, uh, to let them know that we're roofing contractor we want to work for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that it's you know. I guess having the prior knowledge of the roofing systems probably helps right, like, and being able what do you think? How much of an advantage did it give you to be in so many roofing businesses throughout your career on the on the distribution side? Like, do you think that that gave you a different viewpoint on things? Did, and then you also got the like, the roofing systems knowledge you know, really, really you know from a high level. Yeah, now you're able to maneuver in your business a little bit easier. What were some of those lessons that you saw from those other companies? You know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know, when you're working on the supply side of the business, every roof is a little different. And you know, I guess I was always curious and asked why are we, you know, shipping? You know, fully adhered TPS system on this structure versus a mechanically fastened, and why? You know, why do you install GAF versus certainty? Or you know, just kind of having those kinds of conversations over the years and being really curious about you know, just kind of having those kinds of conversations over the years and being really curious about you know, a lightweight concrete deck versus a wood deck or a metal deck. You know, and um, a tapered insulation package. You know what are the advantages of that and how do you do that. You know, um, so I guess that gave me some, some, some advantages. You know, with um, the, the, the lunch, and learns that the vendors would do and I would encourage that to all the contractors to attend all of the lunch and learns that you know your local supply houses are putting on for you, whether it's VLUX skylights or you know EPO training or asphalt shingle training. You know we always learn something every time we go, even if we think we know it all Every year.
Speaker 3:The manufacturers are, you know, upgrading their products and making changes and they're keeping up with the you know the new way of roofing. It's advanced, yeah, every decade it keeps getting better and better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to attend those classes. You've got to welcome them into your shop. Yes, hey, if you want to bring value to me, let's not just go to lunch why don't you come into our office? Let me bring my whole team in here. Let's do a lunch and learn. Let's do a launch and learn. Let's have a, you know, a more intimate training session, if you will. You know, like, hey, tell me a little bit more about this. And yeah, I think that's kind of been part of our success. How?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do contractors like what? Yeah, that perspective, because I think this is a great topic that I think I don't know if I've ever had this conversation. But what ways can you leverage, you know, your manufacturers, your distribution partners to help grow your business? Like those product knowledge sessions, bringing them in, training the team, fantastic opportunities, and they're always willing and they'll buy you lunch and bring it to your office a lot of times and know, like you know it's part of their, you know it's part of what they do on a on a regular basis. What, what are some other things that that, that a contractor that they're not thinking about from the contracting side? They don't even know that that man they'll come to my office and do this or what you know I'd say that.
Speaker 3:You know every one of your suppliers are hungry to come into your office and see how they can build value. You know we have a bad reputation in this industry. Just send me a price sheet and I'll let you know. You know it. You know, when we talk to other vendors, suppliers or manufacturers, you know we're saying, obviously, price is super important, but you know, this is kind of what we look for in a distributor or in a manufacturer.
Speaker 3:One of the things we love about GAF is that they really do put the contractor first, and I'm not promoting GAF, but it's just that they really do put the contractor first. And I'm not promoting GAF, but it's just that they really do. You know they have online training courses. Their vendors are consistently on a monthly. The manufacturer reps are consistently on a monthly basis trying to, you know, schedule meetings with us and are asking us what topics do we want to hear more about? Asking us, what topics do we want to hear more about. So, yeah, no, it's super important that you know.
Speaker 3:Maybe we say, hey, listen to a supplier, listen, we'd love to have some education on VLUX Skylights. Why is it a deck mount versus a curb mount, right? Or you know which Skylights do you stock versus which ones you don't stock and what are the advantages. And just do a one hour lunch and learn with it. With it, with a skylight vendor rep, or learn about your competition, you could be a GAF master, elite.
Speaker 3:And if Owens Corning certainty, even Tamco's coming in saying, hey, we want to work with you to say, look, I mean, we're definitely open to have a lunch and learn, come in and educate us on your product, and that will just only help you when you go out and inspect that roof. Or let's say you are working with a GC or a builder one day and they're going to say, hey, I understand you're a GAF contractor, but we want you to install certainty. Are you really going to miss out on that business because they have it specified? So I guess just your vendors, your manufacturer reps, your distributors are always wanting to work with you and they're always wanting to add value, to build a relationship with you. Let them know what you're looking for and how you're wanting to get better in your business. They have resources and it'll really help you out.
Speaker 1:What things are you looking for beyond just price?
Speaker 3:Education is a big thing for us. We really want product knowledge. I want you to bring something to me that I don't know anything about. You know, and that could be anything from you know, hey, we're not making this product this year, or we've changed our color options, or you know we want to do. We've got a new product coming into the market and we're going to have a training on it. Gaf hosted an Xactimate training for the whole market for us here in Middle Tennessee, and it's not just product knowledge, right, it's like there's so many different parts to our business um, with estimating, project management, sales training, um, it goes on. And on accounting, financials, you know, I mean um it the list goes on and on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you're, you know, as, when you were getting, you know, I guess when you're getting started, when you got, I mean, you probably had some, some ideas in mind. You know, I think I want to work with GAF and or something like that. But, like, what were some of the? What were those considerations that you made? Like you know, I want them to be? You know, the relationship with the reps, I'm sure, is a, is a big thing. You know what are what, what are those? You know what.
Speaker 1:What made you make certain decisions versus others? Before we carry on with the episode, let's give a shout out to one of our sponsors. I talk to contractors every day that feel stuck, not because they're not working hard, but because they're missing the structure to growth without chaos or their culture's falling apart, because their team's unclear, unaligned or just burned out and when change hits, they're reacting instead of leading because time and priorities aren't under their control. Day 41 Thrive helps to fix that with proven strategies for growth, culture and leadership that actually work, ready to thrive beyond the storm. Visit the link in the description or visit the Roofing Success Podcast website on the sponsors page to start your journey today? What made you make certain decisions versus others?
Speaker 3:Well, I guess because of my background I already had some relationships with some vendors I kind of already knew. But it you know it does boil down to I might like the folks at OC and I like the folks at Atlas and CertainTeed and NGAF. Right, you can like them, but you know it's really. You know how can, how can you help me get set up as a certified contractor Now we're master elites. How can you help me build my business? How can we work closer together? And you know, if I call you and I need help with you know sample boards or you know any kind of technical question, I need to know who I can rely on to call. And that was really the biggest decision. Yeah, for us.
Speaker 1:And then so so with that, like I feel like that Would you, they have a vested interest In you succeeding. I think that that's the missed opportunity. A lot of times people will go into these relationships with vendors in in a almost an adversarial relationship right, where it's like I'm just trying to beat them down on price, I'm just trying to get the you know, but, but like if we're all rolling in the same direction, right like they have a vested interest in you succeeding and so so really take advantage of those opportunities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the end of the day, our job is to install their product. Right, that's right. We want to move more product. We want to install more of their products. So how can we work together?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what has your journey been from 2021 until now? That first year, the second year, what were some of those milestones that you hit? The second year, what were some of those milestones that you hit along the way and what were some of the tough parts?
Speaker 3:Oh man, it was tough, jim. I'll say that the first two years were probably the hardest two years of my life. The stress I had no idea. When I was on the supply side of the business, I had no idea what our contractors went through. I had no idea the stress they went through with financials, employee turnover, the late night phone calls, the weekend phone calls, the irate customers that will just text you and almost harass you because you're not perfect. And you know, whenever you're tearing off a roof it is a demolition project and you'll get chewed out just for a twig being snapped on a bush, you know. Or a small black scratch on a piece of concrete, you know, milestones, wow, you know.
Speaker 3:One of the good decisions I made early on was getting a drone to help do inspections. That helped me with my. That helped me kind of move a little quicker. So we're with Loveland Drones now, but you know, know we were with another vendor before they uh, before they went under but um or stopped. But you know the drones, you know, helped with. That was a good decision because it it was a safe way, uh, an accurate way for us to inspect roost and what was so great is that we were able to produce a report, an inspection report, with our logo on it. It's extremely professional and send that to the homeowner really gave them a peace of mind.
Speaker 3:You know, when we were able to start working with some builders after in year two, that was a big milestone, that was huge, really kept us busy in 22, which was kind of a slower year, and you know, then we started, you know, kind of started getting big enough to get some help right, needed an office manager. I was scared about hiring help because, you know, I, you know I guess your ego gets in the way and you think you can carry all the burden on your chest and you really can't. So I did make some bad hiring decisions, but I've also made very good hiring decisions that just outweigh the bad. Right. We still we have folks who's been with us three and four years now and we're so proud of that and now they are helping folks on board and train them. And now they are helping folks on board and train them, you know, and so I guess people, people is is one of the best things and helped us out the most in 2022, 2023.
Speaker 3:It's all about culture. If you have a great culture, if you have a good team and you all are all communicating with one another and open with one another, you can really be successful. We're not a huge shop. There's 23 of us at Forest Roofing and we, you know we we're like. You know the F in FORCE stands for the FORCE family. You know we keep, we're starting to build tiers and you know we have an estimating department, so now I'm not having to do all the estimating anymore. That took a lot of money and we have a strong sales team and we have a great project management group and a fantastic office staff that you know really do get it and you know understand customer service and accounts payable and receivables. I'm kind of going off on a tangent there.
Speaker 1:That's all right. No, it is so. You know, it really does come down to the people a lot of times and we do get scared of hiring. You know, along the way, what were some of the lessons you learned around hiring or recruiting the right people for your team, you know?
Speaker 3:I've heard it my whole life. What do they say? Fire fast and hire slow. Mm hmm, I was the exact opposite. I was getting so busy that I was hiring fast and firing way too slow and because of that it cost me business. I made some bad hires that they were not a good fit for our company, our culture. They were extremely unprofessional to customers, snippy with them. They would receive phone calls and then they would hit ignore and then just text them back and just horrible customer service, the worst you've ever seen. I'm going off on a tangent.
Speaker 1:No, that's right that this is the type of stuff, though, Like you know, you'd said that then you ended up leaving, Did you? You let them stay too long.
Speaker 3:I let them stay way too long. I kept thinking that I could make them better. I was like you know, if they can just do 70% of it, or do it as good as I can 70% of the time, then it'll be okay. But that's not it. That is not it. They were bad for our culture. They were bad for our customers. They were even bad for our you know our sales team, you know we.
Speaker 3:There was a lot of headache, a lot of bad communication, but I was just hiring so fast because we were growing so fast. I just needed some bodies in the air to help me and I one of my biggest weaknesses is that I'm impatient and I I was, you know, ready to move. And hey, we're past that now. We've had our lessons learned. One thing that we do now is that we have three people interview before we make a hiring decision.
Speaker 3:Used to, it was just me interviewing them and I really do want to see the best in everybody. I really do want to see the best in everybody. I really do want to like, believe you, if you, if you put this on your resume, if you tell me you did this, I really do believe you, I, I, I, you know I want to see you be successful, but that's the advantage of having several people interview them is that they'll ask different questions and, you know, kind of see if they can navigate the onboarding, I guess, in a better way. Yeah, hiring is something that I really had to learn a lot about, but that's you know. When I was on the supply side of the business man, I really I was in sales, so I sold the product and I learned the product.
Speaker 3:I didn't really know that much about this part of the business, right, so definitely. The old saying is is fire fast and hire slow. I would encourage everybody to do that. But when you're in it and you're, and you're in the thick of it you your anxiety's to the roof, you're stressed, you need help. You, we sometimes will settle, you know, and, and that could cost us business in the long run that's just not worth it.
Speaker 1:But I see that so many, so often, like people just settle. It's like I just need someone to help. Yeah, I just need someone to help. And what I? What I like that you said is you're like because you hear that that thing and it's an entrepreneurial kind of quote that you know if they could do it. You know 70, 80 percent as good as you just fire them, go move. But how do you, how do you, how do you make that? Not the case like how do you, how do you, how do you make that? Not the case Like how do you make it? How do you make? How do you ensure? Now, as you've gone through this, you know multiple times and you're up to you know the 20 something employees that you have. Now that you look at it, how do you ensure that they're doing 100 percent, doing 100%, but maybe, even if it's in a different, maybe at a different, different process or a different way than you do it, but they're still getting that the same result.
Speaker 3:But, but I hate to say there's two things here. One, you want to hire somebody who's smarter than you, but you're looking for I've got estimators here that can dissect a roof way better than I ever could, um, and we've got project managers here. There's been project managing and roofing for 10 and 15 years and uh, then we also have some, some, some new folks to the industry. But those senior people can now mentor the, the, the, the inexperienced ones, and so you, you, you're going to have to pay for.
Speaker 3:You're going to, if you're posting an ad for a project manager and you're going to pay them forty five to sixty thousand dollars a year, you're going to get up forty five, sixty thousand dollar a year employee to $60,000 a year. You're going to get a $45,000, $60,000 a year employee. But if you pay for, you know, if you post an ad for and you set your expectations and you might have to increase that salary up to the 80 to even 100, you know salary price range you're going to get that level of employee and I know not every time, but you're really going to get what you pay for. And I've learned that. I've tried to be cheap, tried to cut corners and at the end of the day, it's cost me business and it's cost me so much time, so much of my time. It just wasn't worth it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you think we do that? Because I think we do. I think a lot of times, especially early on in hiring, we're always trying to save money. Yeah Right, Like it's like, oh no, why do you think we I don't know man, why do you think we go that route?
Speaker 3:We're watching our P&Ls, we're watching, yeah, but the thing is, if you want, if you hire some folks that can help your jobs run smoother, help you by SOPs, identify, you know, anything that's going wrong, how can we get better? And then implement those processes and procedures, your, your business, is going to run 10 times smoother. It is. You're not going to. You know cause. The thing is, you don't want to look like a bag of ass out there on the job, right? You want to. When you're out there doing a demolition job or I don't care if you're roof loading on a commercial roof or you're tearing off on a residential you want. You want to look like a first-class organization. I love the catch-all system where safety cone and everything. Now, you know, you want to. You don't want to just look like a couple of random trucks coming out there and and and just tearing off like it's a landscape crew. You know, onsite superintendents. You need to. You need to, really, you know, have your processes in place and have those jobs managed correctly. But, but, but.
Speaker 1:You price for a professional team like that, but those people cost money, david.
Speaker 3:But put them in company vehicles and company uniforms and they're on your insurance. And then you know you want to be able to provide benefits like 401ks and health insurance. So you know, but you can't be afraid to put your margins where you need them to be. You know, obviously there's contractors in our market that sell higher than we do and they win and then unfortunately, you always hear about all the low ballers out there. But you know you've really got to. You know, sell your service and your warranty. But how you price.
Speaker 3:One thing we do a lot of that does help us is service work. Those margins are 60 to 80%. Sometimes you can use leftover materials, stuff in your warehouse, or you can. You know there's a lot more risk in a roof repair than a full tear-off. But what I mean by that is you know, the roof repair. You think you might have it, but sometimes you got to go back out two or three times and that's where it'll start costing you money.
Speaker 3:But selling that service work, one thing we do is we call it a roof tune-up and every house we go to they might not need a full roof replacement but we'll say, hey, look, we'd like to sell you. You know, talk to you about a roof tune up, and you know we're going to come out, we're going to, we're going to change all the pipe boots, tack up any loose lane shingles, anything, fish mouthing, uh, check all your flashings, uh, all your penetrations. And um, this service starts at twelve hundred dollars and what it does? It helps us build a customer for life. But that roof does.
Speaker 3:But what we're doing is we're extending the life of that roof. Right, we're not up there, you know, doing anything other than preventing leaks from happening in the next couple of years. Because storms happen, right, and you want to make sure you get the old change in your car right To keep it going. Why not get a tune-up on your roof? And so that service work does help with covering cost on overhead. But, um, but we've got to. That's why we got to have a diverse business and boots on ground. We've got to.
Speaker 1:We got to keep selling, but yeah, and that's service-based business as a lead-in to, as a lead-in to future business. I think that's the. I mean, it's been, I've been talking about it for a long time, but and people always ask me that are outside of the roofing industry when I have a conversation, I'm like, yeah, a lot of roofers don't do roof repairs and they're like what, what are you talking about? Why would, why would a roofing company not do roofers? That doesn't even. It doesn't. Even a homeowner can't even comprehend it. I can't either, right, and I was like, but it's, it's the business model that you have subcontractors, you know. And then, and after I explained the business model, that, oh, okay, maybe now I get it a little bit, but my goodness, the missed opportunity there.
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Speaker 2:your full ai team is ready why would?
Speaker 1:why would a roofing company not do roofers? That doesn't even. It doesn't even a homeowner can't even comprehend it. I can't either, right, and I was like but it's, it's the business model that you have subcontractors, you know. And after I explain the business model, that, oh OK, maybe now I get it a little bit, but my goodness, the missed opportunity there.
Speaker 3:Most of your crews will come out and do like team out to do a repair for you, you know. So don't mistake the service work. From the repair work to the install work, those that's three different types of jobs we can always go out and do you know, service work is more preventative maintenance, got it? Yes, that's, that's good stuff, that's what you want. To be in there like, hey, let's, let's, let's stop this from even happening before it happens, because then you're going to have interior damages, you're going to have a lot more than just a little roof fix. A repair work is when you know you have some shingles blown off or a tree limb fell on your roof, or you know whatever older roof and they don't want to replace it. And then you've got the roof you know installed.
Speaker 1:How have you gotten the? I think service work is is very common in commercial. Do you see it on the or are you guys selling it on the residential side fairly well?
Speaker 3:Also any, any. Yeah, it's over five to seven years old. You know, with the the, you know the major storms that we get. You know, over the years we we don't sell them all the time, Don't get me wrong, there's folks that will object to it. But I mean they can run their credit card right there. You know, check cash, whatever, it starts at $1,200 and it's a pretty good deal to make sure that your roof isn't going to leak, and you know we can help extend that life.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we're trying to sell more service work on the residential side. You're going to get your HVAC unit serviced every six months or every year. At least you do here in the South. Why would you not get the rest of your house checked? So we've had some success with that. It's, you know, on the commercial side it's really good. That's good work too. But of course we come up to a house that has a bunch of pine, straw and leaves in the valleys and you can see their gutters get clogged up. Why not? Let's go ahead, get that taken care of, you don't? You might not need a roof replacement, but let's get everything cleaned up for when we do have these heavy rains, that everything will flow smooth and it and it's the opportunity to make an impression.
Speaker 1:I think is. Is the the right like? It's such an opportunity how have you kind of formulated this to make a great impression on that homeowner during this process, to make sure that you're you're who they call when it's really time?
Speaker 3:Like you say, there's a lot of contractors that won't do repair or service work, so that's kind of one of our niches. But we have marketing material. It's on our website. Our SEO is helping us with that. We have a tryer. That kind of shows some before and after photos and some success. And we also have weekly sales team meetings and it's probably talked about every week, if not every other week, because we have to encourage a lot of service work because it's how we're going to stay in their home for the next five, 10 years and then they'll give us a call and we've already had success.
Speaker 3:We've had some small hail, we've had some high winds and we did a roof tune up on a few houses and they called us and said we need you to come out and inspect us just to see how how we're looking after these storms. And some of that's converted into, you know, roofs and some of it has been okay. You know it's just, it just, but you want to build that customer for life. You want to be known as a local service provider. If you are just a storm chaser, that's a great business model, don't get me wrong. But might not always make everybody feel that comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and building that database, it's when the storm happens. How is that? How has that happened over the years for you? Because every year, you just add more people to the database. Add more people to the database. You know we're in 2025 now. Add more people to the database. You know we're in 2025 now. Yeah, when a storm comes through, now you know how does the phone ring versus you know when you were getting getting going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, it's totally different now. I think you're the one that educated me on that that. Hey, look, we need six months to to really get this going for you. Uh, building, building you in the platforms, right, and yeah, helping you get to the top of the page and, uh, it's like, it's like working out right. You got to keep putting your SEO, so longevity in the market obviously does have something to do with it. You know, and your brand and your vehicles out there and the phones ring a lot more now than they used to.
Speaker 3:That's a lot better of a feeling. But you know at first, you know that's. That's one of the things if you're starting out, really, really try to vet your marketing agency and your companies that you are going to. You're going to, you know, look, we're looking to hire because they are expensive and they're very intimidating, but I would say that that was one of the best decisions we made. Yeah, the very beginning.
Speaker 3:And you know, if you're not launching your company for a few months, I would still encourage you to go ahead and get with your marketing agency to start building that platform and that Web site for you and running that SEO and your, your LSA and PPC ads and everything that you can, because you have a lot of good competition out there, that their websites are already up and running and that's one of the drivers for the phone calls. But also you need to attend all of your you know local, you know networking chapters. You know there's BNI, there's all types of referral-based networking groups. Hey, get in there with some other trade partners. Try to find some tree service companies, some painters, some ciders, some masons, you know. Work with them and get involved in their network and that way you guys can refer one another to work as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how has that been? Have you developed a lot of those relationships in the area? Referral relationships with other providers?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have now. It obviously took time. Yeah, of course. I mean, if you need a home inspector, you need a mason, you need a painter, you need a decking guy, you know we, we have that and obviously it took a long time for us to to really we wanted, if we're going to refer you, we want to make sure that you're going to be one of the good ones. But I mean one of my closest. I got two really close friends. One's a restoration guy mold, fire, water and the other guy is just a remodeler. We just send each other everything. At this point, I mean, it's it's, you know it's. It's as simple as hey, man, just come over here and get it done, send me the invoice, um, and, and you know it's, it can be anything from flashing in some curbs or it can. You know, hey, he did a porch addition and he just, you know it's a small little six square porch, but hey, we'll take it. You know, if it's it, we want to keep our guys busy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, you know that sounds like you've those relationships, and then you've built a lot of the builder relationships on that side too. What are some things that you did right or in some of the lessons you've learned around building those, building those relationships with builders? Yeah, with builders, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean you're going to business development is a totally different sell than like when you're going out there then doing a door to door sell. Right, you got to go in there, you got to be in there often. You can't just go in there one time and expect someone to hand you over their portfolio or their, their book of business, and then you also need to learn how to talk to them by saying, hey, listen, I understand you might already have a roofing contractor, um, but how can I be your secondary? What can I do to be a phone call away when they are too busy to show up for you? And um, so I felt like I've done. You know it's learning your verbiage is learning how to you know, kind of, be able to take the rejection and know that. Hey look, we're a younger company, I get it. There's companies that have been doing turkey roofing here for 20, 30 years. They got a great name and they do really good, but they can't service everybody. So you know I'm not trying to get the whole pie, I'm just trying to get a piece of the pie.
Speaker 3:You know one of the things I did wrong? That goes back to the hiring. I hired two project managers that were not as experienced and very unprofessional. And when you bring on a builder, you've done everything you can, you've said the right stuff in the meetings, you've estimated correctly, you've got all the vendor packets filled out, you're ready to go. If you can't service that business, it's over. There is, no, there is. You're going to get. You know. You're going to go through the pricing phases, you're going to spend two, three weeks estimating all their houses, but if you are not set up to service that business, you are in big trouble and it's over. And they're, unfortunately, always going to remember that. So I was fired by two larger builders here in the Middle Tennessee market, worked really hard to bring those folks on and because I made quick hiring decisions just to take some stuff off my plate, it ended up costing me millions of dollars in revenues.
Speaker 3:Um, and that's been about a year and a half ago one of the builders is actually bringing us on board. Um, we start back with them, uh, into this summer. So we're super thankful. We've rebuilt our, our staff. So if that does happen to you, don't give up. You got to keep looking.
Speaker 3:Yes, you're not going to win every game, so you need to be able to. You're going to say, hey, you know what I'm humbled, you know I I see where we screwed up. I'm going to regroup with my team. I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, rebuild this service department and this production team, and then we're going to let you know, we're going to come back and and then one builder unfortunately won't even talk to us.
Speaker 3:They've been scarred and it wasn't that horrible of an experience, but it was still not the best customer service. So if you are going to start doing this kind of work, you've got to make sure that you have good project managers, good superintendents, and that they know how to communicate professionally, because it is all about communication, it is. You're going to get the installs done, that's fine, but if you don't know how to juggle the amount of communication that comes from that, then you know. So that was a tough lesson for me to learn and thankfully I learned it and we're past that. But uh, you know, it goes back to hiring the right people yeah, I think there's a couple of lessons there.
Speaker 1:The first one is like, uh, I had a episode not too long ago with uh, jake jonathan cronstead, jay cron, and he talked about um, he always puts people as the last thing in his like. He has a hierarchy of seven P's and people's the last one, and the reason is because all of the other things have to be in place for the people to execute well, and so if you don't have your processes in place, you're not able to handle that business. Now, all of a sudden, you're putting your people in a bad spot. Sometimes it might be a bad person, who's not, but it was. You know. You're the process. The communication process may have not been executed on well or put together in a way that that they could have done that. And so if you you know and I think about it from a sales perspective too is like you know you're going to, if you're a salesperson and the company doesn't fulfill on the promises that you are making, well, that doesn't feel good either, right, like the that that having having your ducks in a row You're going to.
Speaker 1:And the other thing you said is that we made the mistake and then we kept going back we acknowledged that we made this mistake and that, hey, we had the wrong person, we didn't have the right processes in place, we didn't have the right things in place. They're all just lessons, right, so it's all just okay. What can I learn from this? Now I move on and we rebuild this area. It's nice that someone is able to give. I learn from this. Now I move on and we rebuild this area.
Speaker 1:It's nice that someone is able to give you another chance and some people are not, but that's, you know, that's the way it goes. From that perspective, though, like you said, like with these relationships, this is recurring business, so it's business development versus sales. You're, you know, different type of sale. That's different type of sale, you know. So I mean, I guess maybe you had some, um, some, you know what you did from the, from the distribution side, was the same, was a more similar sale, right, like a more similar sales process. Yeah, I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors.
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Speaker 1:You did from the from the distribution side was the same. Was a more similar sale right Like a more similar sales process? Yeah, more similar sale right Like a more similar sales process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it takes time. You know, when you're on the supply side of the business, you're, you can't just walk in there and to a owner or a roofing company and say, hey, I'm, I'm, you know, buy from me. You know, you've got to kind of build that relationship and if someone does buy from you that quickly, that that's kind of a red flag that might, you know, they might not pay their bills. You want to, you want to have a little bit of uh, hard to get I guess, but uh, yes, it is about relationships, it is about being consistent, you're going to about you're going to.
Speaker 3:You know you're going to. You know if you call a customer, I don't care if it's property management or general contractors or builders or whoever you're going after. If you call them once every six months, no one's ever going to remember you, right? You're not going to know who you are. And if you just let them say, hey, we've already got a roofing contractor, we're good, thank you, don't come back. And then you never go back, well, you're never going to earn that business.
Speaker 3:So you've got to kind of come up with a you know, a, an approach to where you know you're. You're consistently. You know touching them one way or the other, whether it's LinkedIn or emails, or you know stopping by the office hey, I was in the area wanting to say hello to you. You know, um, how are things going? You never know when that opportunity is going to be there and if you only go in there every six months, you're going to miss out. So you got to stay consistent with your. You know your sales calls and you know staying in touch, and that's how you're going to be successful on that side of the business You're going to-.
Speaker 1:How many? When do you give up? You're going to Right, like there's a. You know how many times do you reach out until they say no to you? So many times that you know you just say all right, I guess we're not the right company. It's a good question.
Speaker 3:That's a tough one. It really depends on how badly you want to work for them. I guess we're all human beings. So have I given up on you know, trying? Absolutely have I. Have I let it slip where I forgot to follow up and it's been four months? Yeah, of course. You know. One of the things we started doing now is like we kind of have a top five list You're going to, we want to work for, and so we kind of make sure we give them the most attention. And then you know we kind of you're going to, you're going to go from there. But that's a good question. I'm not a sales coach, I'm not a. I'm not a, you know, think that.
Speaker 1:I think the answer I love the answer of how much do we want to work with them? Right, there's the. There's the book the Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes that outlines the Dream 100 strategy. So if anyone listening hasn't read that book, read it. Audible. Whatever you do, it's about building those long-term relationships in a B2B sales environment, business development. And the Dream 100 is hey, I want these are my dream 100 customers. It could be five, it could be 25, it could be 10, it could be whatever it is to you, but I like the way that you framed it. Oh, these are the five that we want to work for. These five, no matter, like we're just gonna keep, we're just gonna keep stepping up to the plate until we, until we get a hit like we're just gonna keep going. Now there are others.
Speaker 3:You might just say hey, let me give you an order, so you go away that's right.
Speaker 1:Like please, just you know. And which is which is fine too right, like you, just you just gotta. But but knowing you're gonna think there's some self-awareness there, right, like okay, okay, this is who we are, this is who our best, our perfect customer is right, our builder, this builder is a perfect builder for us. The way that we've developed and designed our company, man, we can really serve them on a high level. I could see it and going after that list and figuring out who that person is, how did you determine which builders are the best? Are that top five for you? Is it just that they're the biggest builders in the area, or is it that there's some other factors in there for you?
Speaker 3:No, we work for builders that build five houses a year and some that build, you know, seven, 800 a year. You're going to, um, I think it kind of boils down to you know, how are they? I mean, how, how do they treat us when we say hello to them and we come in, you know, and, and what type of houses they build? Or you know buildings do they build? Or you know, are they open to speaking to somebody? It's, that's a, that's a. You know, that's a tough question because You're going to know, we all, we always want the easy one, right, the one. Eddie, come on in, yeah, I'll talk to you, that's right. You know, it's the ones that you know.
Speaker 3:But we also have learned some hard lessons. We've we've been hired by some folks that that work good to their trade partners, and you know, I guess that just takes some time. We we've actually fired a builder before and they weren't a good fit for us. And you know some of these companies and you got to be careful when you work for them and sometimes, unfortunately, you won't always know until you already are working for them. But build your network of your local. You're going to, you know friends, you're in the roofing business and ask around about them, ask your supplier about them, but sometimes they want to look at you like you're a bank and not pay you as quickly or have different terms. So you know that's what that vendor packet is all about. Make sure that when you are filling out that vendor packet or you're talking to, and it don't matter what you know builder, gc, property manager look at those terms, make sure they are going to be a good partner for you and make sure they're going to pay their bills on time. That's a big thing.
Speaker 1:How do you ensure that they're paying their bills on time? Do you have certain protocols that you have put in place, or is it Unfortunately, I've had to learn some of those the hard way.
Speaker 3:We've never been totally stiffed, I mean it. You know, there there's been a couple of times where it's been almost 90 days and had to go back and forth and stuff. But, um, sometimes you can ask your suppliers to to see if they, um, you know, know anybody who's worked for him, or, you know, sometimes you can also ask for credit references. You know. So, you know that's. That's just some of the lessons you have to learn along the way. You're going to, you're going to, you're going to.
Speaker 1:So early in the conversation you said that you didn't understand the amount of stressing contractor around. You know managing that stress and kind of getting to the maybe if there ever is another side of it. I don't know if there ever is another side of it, but you know how do you get through that time.
Speaker 3:You're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to and I think we all would say, if we could do it again, what we would do differently. You're going to definitely give yourself some grace. You can't accomplish in one day what someone has in 20 years. It's going to take time. One thing that I probably would have done differently would have been I had a second phone. You're going to use the same phone for everything, and nights and weekends I never got a break. Every time our family would go on vacation. It was nonstop work and I think that's just the entrepreneur life. I know we all do that, but never did take off.
Speaker 3:Because if it's not a customer, it's an employee. If it's not an employee, then it's a supplier. You know, whatever the case is, you got to also learn how to handle that amount of pressure and you've got to remain, you know, professional and in line the whole time. You can't lose your temper. You can't fire back. You've got to be professional, you've got to be level-headed. You're going to, you're going to. You're going to, you're going to, you're going to. You're going to have to do it all yourself.
Speaker 3:I know it's scary hiring, bringing folks on payroll, but building that support system is going to help you be successful. And if you need to take a few months to write some SOPs and to put some systems in place on how you want it to be before you bring on the right person, that's OK. Take your time. Don't rush and just hire anybody just because they're a warm body. You want to kind of take your time. Remember that they're representing your brand when you go out and they can hurt you and your reputation quickly, and that's a risk that we all take. But, and guess what? It's OK to change those SOPs and make those processes better as you go on.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to be perfect. So that's what I'm saying by give yourself some grace, you know, don't, don't be so hard on yourself. Kind of put your ideas down on how project managers should handle the job, or a superintendent, or a sales rep, whatever, and and then just sharpen the you know those, those ideas as you go. You're going to have some lessons learned. It's not going to be perfect, it's it's, it's, it's going to be. You're going to have some lessons learned. It's not going to be perfect, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be. You're going to have a new challenge every day. You're going to, as soon as you think you had it, you know, put together and everything was perfect, a new obstacle will will come up and, and you know, you're going to have to learn how to overcome it.
Speaker 1:They will always come, David Dees. Appreciate your time, man. This has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker 2:Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast For more valuable content. Visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom While there. Check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tips. Also join the Roofing Success Facebook group to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest trends. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry insights. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening.
