Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
Facing the Ugly Truth About Leadership at Moose Roofing with Patrick Muhs
What happens when growth forces you to look in the mirror? Patrick Muhs of Moose Roofing shares his unfiltered journey through leadership, imposter syndrome, and building a resilient team. This story is raw, inspiring, and packed with lessons you can use to lead your roofing business to new heights. Learn how Patrick transformed failures into opportunities, embraced his role as a visionary, and created a culture where his team thrives. From tough decisions to fostering momentum, Patrick’s insights will challenge and motivate you.
🔗 https://www.mooseroofing.com
🤖 Have a question? Ask this customized ChatGPT for the answer! Specifically designed for this episode, it’s here to help! https://roofingpod.com/chatgpt-239
Resources & Links:
🤝 Join The Roofing & Solar Reform Alliance: http://roofingpod.com/rsra
👉 Take your marketing to the next level: https://roofingpod.com/jobnimbus-marketing
🎯 Join Our Facebook Group: https://roofingpod.com/facebook
IG: https://www.instagram.com/roofingsuccess/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/roofingsuccess
📱 Text Jim @ (612) 512-1812 – Say Hi!
💬 Leave Us a Review: https://roofingpod.com/review
What do you do when your business growth feels like a blessing in disguise? For Patrick Moose, it meant stepping back into leadership and embracing the hard lessons of team building. This episode explores how to overcome imposter syndrome, build a resilient team and embrace growth in your roofing business. Patrick Moose, owner of Moose Roofing, turns challenges into opportunities, leading his company to its biggest year yet, while redefining his role as a visionary leader. Patrick's humility and grit shine through as he shares the pivotal moments that shaped Moose Roofing's success and his journey back into the driver's seat. Learn how to tackle fear of failure and create an environment where your team thrives. Let's dive in with Patrick Moose. Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. Patrick Moose Moose Roofing Nebraska's Finest. How's it going, man?
Speaker 2:Man, it's going awesome. We just had a shot of some really unseasonably warm weather and had an opportunity to spend a weekend by myself, you know, cleaning up, organizing and getting some things wrapped up around here. It's a pretty good feeling today.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty good feeling today. It is. It's always nice to have things organized right Like that's. You know we're going into winter months now, but like that spring cleaning kind of aspect of things, right, let's take all this clutter we have, organize it, get it out of the way, fresh start. Take all this clutter we have, organize it, get it out of the way, fresh start. We were talking a little bit ago and it's around imposter syndrome and how that impacts your business and your mindset in business. Patrick, how do you overcome imposter syndrome in your roofing business?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, like I think I've struggled with that for a long, long time in this industry and you know, when we were kind of doing a little bit of a warm up here I use that term or that phrase that thought process of that, like I spent a lot of time. You know, it's not really a success or failure time that I'm talking about. It's just not really doing anything. Uh uh time where it's like you're on the fence, you're looking, trying to decide, and those those times of indecisiveness and those times of of uh uh, being unclear about the direction that you're supposed to be going, isn't really? I mean, we label that imposter syndrome all the time, but I don't know that it's necessarily always an imposter syndrome type of thing, I think. Sometimes you just don't know.
Speaker 1:And that's okay.
Speaker 2:You know, like the just get off the fence and get going. And you know, I think the last time that we talked I was kind of banging the drum on this mantra of like that we don't all have to be right, we just have to decide as a team, as an organization, the direction that we're heading, and then we all move in formation, you know, towards a common goal and we can make little degree changes as we go along the way. You know, to adjust and to capitalize on opportunity. To adjust and to capitalize on opportunity.
Speaker 2:But the imposter syndrome to me is a notion of that, like I'm afraid to fail. It's a hypervigilance, it's a I don't do anything because I don't know what to do. And that's that getting off the fence just to stop observing and just get in there and go. You know, I think that this year we've seen lots and lots of times where we've, you know, the mistake rate or the fail rate or whatever you want to label it, you know, sometimes has gotten high and I used to get discouraged about that or or worry about it. Uh, but that's, that's the imposter syndrome. That's a, you know, like I don't want to make a mistake, so I don't do anything I'm afraid somebody's going to find me out, type of thing. Like I really don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:And you know, when you think about that, like if you're making a lot of mistakes, that means you're making a lot of moves, right, and I've just kind of given that idea, that permission, if you will, throughout our entire company, just like, hey, get after it, let's get some stuff done.
Speaker 2:You know, if I, if you roll through the parking lot and you got a broken taillight well at least I know you went to work today you know you can tell me about what happened later, right, but I just don't get. I don't get wound up about that stuff or concerned about it as much as I at one time did. You know that I never have been a person I guess that needed affirmations necessarily from those people around me and so that's been a big help, I suppose, in avoiding that notion of an imposter syndrome type of thing. But I did always want to make the right decisions, and something that I think I've adopted fairly well in the last year and a half or so is that it's like man, you don't have to, you just don't have to be able to predict the future. You know you do have to be ready to participate in it, but I don't hold myself accountable to having all the answers anymore. It's like we'll figure it out together as we go right right, that's a big leap.
Speaker 1:It's a big leap and it's something that we don't have the grace of. We don't have to have all of the answers now, right. How do you create an environment where you continue to answer the questions?
Speaker 2:We created the environment to answer the questions by giving everybody an opportunity to have a say in it.
Speaker 2:I am definitely a leader that believes in that whole.
Speaker 2:If I'm to ascribe to something that came from, you know, like the likes of Jocko Willink, like that decentralized command where it's like I give the guys and the gals who are in leadership positions in our company a lot of latitude, given the opportunity to go out there and have their input and their say and their role in the growth and the direction of the company, and so when we're all working on that stuff together, you know, in a committee, you're going to come up with better answers than than if I isolate it and act like a dictator and have a centralized command station where it's like I got to be the guy who makes every call.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, a good percentage of those calls aren't going to be right, because I've got to listen to my people who are out in the field, or the people who are out, you know, doing the sales, or the folks who are in the production, or you know whatever department is that we're talking about that. Uh, you know, uh, I gotta get feedback from those folks, and so I think that's probably the primary function.
Speaker 1:So you've kind of you know jumped back into the business in a in a larger role. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I was, uh, uh, had. I was on my way out. Actually a couple of years ago I was even in negotiations of selling the company and that whole thing did not come to pass and I believe that was all by the grace of God. I am so grateful for that happening and being what it was. You know, I came back in like I said I took the company over again, and that's what I was alluding to earlier when I said you and I had talked about that at one point in time. I was like labeling myself integrator, which I don't, which I'm just not.
Speaker 2:You know, like, I am the visionary of our company and I was being lazy man, like I was. It was just me being a wuss going like. Well, you know, like, if I put the burden on somebody else or if I'm willing to allow someone else to accept that burden, then you know things will be smoother, they'll be easier. But it's like man, I was given, you know, a certain amount of grace in this life and and and out of good stewardship, I have got to to realize that potential Right, like, like, I took it upon myself at that time when everything fell through with the sale of the business and this massive growth that we've gone through, this incredible change. I'm realizing that was meant to occur.
Speaker 2:I don't look back on those days with any kind of bitterness at all. I feel like that was ordained to happen. I wouldn't have grown and I wouldn't have recognized a lot of things about myself and about the potential of me and all the people on our company had I not been through all of what we experienced, you know, with what happened, with that falling through the sale of business. It's like that was meant to be and it's all an amazing transformation and an incredible growth period, not just for me but for everybody else in the company. I mean, it's just been. It's been so amazing, it's been incredible. That's what I mean when I say you know, not any one man or any one woman, if you will. You know to to maintain a little decorum. It's like I'm never going to build any part of the organization around, you know. You know just the quarterback of the team type of thing, right, like it's the whole team. That's what we got to focus our attention on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what, what are? It sounds like that's been the biggest lesson. Am I right? Like that sounds like the biggest lesson that's come through? This is don't build the team around one person. Is that? Is that the biggest lesson?
Speaker 2:You know it's certainly, if it's not the biggest, biggest it's uh, it's right there at the top of the list, right? That? Uh, yeah, you've gotta, uh, I have to evaluate. You know, every person on the team. We're a company of 30 people and uh, um, you know, and it's not just the people that are on the team, it's the, it's the people and their significant others. You know their spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, what have you.
Speaker 2:You know, like, everybody contributes in a certain way and and and I always have to think about, like, what is for the good of the entire organization, rather than going like, well, you know, I'm willing to, I'm willing to kind of sacrifice a little bit on culture, or maybe I'll overlook some of the value stuff that perhaps doesn't match up with what we say, we are and who we are and what we do around here. And one morning I woke up and I just said, you know, this is it. I'm not, I do. I've been given an incredible gift, an amazing blessing, and out of the sense of stewardship and out of doing what's right for everybody in the entire company, you know, like I, at one point in time I kind of thought, like, you know, you don't have to look towards everybody in the company, like they're a huge contributing element to the team. Maybe there's going to be people who, maybe a certain person, doesn't have the greatest attitude, or you know, I kind of had mentioned and I don't even know if it was on air, if it was kind of the time we were talking beforehand but it's like for somebody who needs constant affirmation you know of. Like, you know everybody's got to walk on eggshells around that person or whatever.
Speaker 2:It's just like man, I, at one point in time I thought that I had to accept that. I thought that was just part of the business. But I've learned that it's like, if I don't want to hang out with you and your family, I'm not going to work with you, right, like, like we, I had to make some really, really difficult decisions about the people who are going to be in this business and the people who are going to be in leadership positions in this business. And uh, and it was really hard, I mean like, and that's something else that we've had to, we had to accept is like, if you get to the end of the day and you've got some bad feelings about something sometimes, that's just got to be OK. You know, like I could good feeling myself into absolute failure.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's OK to make those decisions that you don't feel you know that don't make you feel good, right, like, as a matter of fact, that's my responsibility and that's the thing that I think I've taken most seriously or taken most to heart for the last couple of years is that my job here is to do the hard stuff and that's the thing that makes it possible for all the rest of the team to you know, to work in an environment where they know that you know, no matter what, I've got their back and that, and that we're moving towards some really positive and cool stuff. We're coming off of the biggest year we've ever had and, uh, and I expect next year to blow that away We've already begun, uh, strategic planning for next year, which is like almost a whole month earlier than what we thought we were going to, and it's already been just massively successful as far as, like, the buy-in, the uh, the enthusiasm, all the people on the team. It's an incredible day, it's an incredible month and an awesome year.
Speaker 1:I want to, as you're talking about this and kind of you know, in the previous, we'll call it the previous era of Moose Roofing right, we'll call it the previous era of moose roofing.
Speaker 1:Every business goes through these eras right. Every team goes through eras right the. You know the. There was an the. The. The Patriots had an era right, the. You know the. The. You know everybody, like all the. You know. Teams have eras right, and and and so there's a transition through this era. Do you feel in the last era, where you were not as involved, was that where you're trying to hit an easy button of some sort?
Speaker 2:I was being lazy, jim, like I was. That's exactly what it was is that? You know, I thought that assembling a team and you know we can't do anything without the team Right, but you know, I just, I just had this notion about, like, having people in leadership positions in this team that would take over, you know, the major decision making and everything else. That that was something that was working for me. It's not right, it's not wrong necessarily, it's just something that I recognize. This wasn't working for me. It's not right, it's not wrong necessarily, it's just something that I recognize. This wasn't working for me and it wasn't working for anybody else in the company either. Right, and so that era again, I believe that it was ordained to happen. It was an incredible lesson and it was a great blessing, because now, here I am and I'm feeling full of energy and full of very positive prospects moving into the future.
Speaker 2:And it's like, had I not learned that lesson, where would we be? Maybe still stagnating, right? So everything is, you know, a failure, like, as we were talking about this a little bit ago, that mistake rate or that fail rate. That's an opportunity to learn and to grow. And if you're not, if you fear that and you run away from it. You're, you know, a person isn't taking the opportunity to grow and to and to and to get better. And I just have accepted the idea that, despite the fact that I'm 55 years old and I've been doing this for a long, long time, is that it's never been better than it is right now. I feel, like the future in this business specifically, and in this industry generally, that there's never been a better time than there is right now to be in it. And so, man, like the future is, you know, really exciting to me. You know, really exciting to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome man. And so what? What were some of those things that that led up to the change in era right, because I think that's where the tough decisions get made. You had to have had to make some really challenging decisions going, transitioning through. What were some of the things that led to it's time to make a change?
Speaker 2:You know I can't speak for everybody. I've been using the word you a lot, but what I need to replace that with is I. When I am recognizing that in the very moral fabric in my own being, when everything that I say and the things that I think I'm supposed to do do not align with what's actually going on in my life, it's time to make some tough decisions, and I've got to make the call about am I going to accept this or am I going to be who I say I am? Are we going to be who we say we are? Are we going to uphold that standard?
Speaker 2:I mean we, you know we have all of our values, what we call the moose antlers that are on these huge black glass placards along a hallway that everybody walks into every day on their way down to the training room, and we walk past those and I had to say to myself, as I'm walking down that hall and looking at all those moose values that are on the wall, it's like am I actually living those? Are we upholding that standard? Are we being you know I hate to use you know again cliche, but are you being all that you can be right? Am I being all that I can be, and when the answer is no, you're at a crossroads. You know, like I avoided that, turn my back on it if you will, you know, for a period of time, and then and then, like I said, there's just something within my spirit that I was just like I'm. I'm not going to allow this anymore. You know, we are who we are, we are who we say we are, we do do what we say we're going to do and we do live the standard that we claim to live. Right, so that's it. That was the decision and that was the time.
Speaker 1:I love this because a lot of times we have those core values, we've expressed them, we've put them on the wall, we're, you know we're, but but the actual living up to them does get lost over time if yeah if it's not reinforced. What were the steps that you took to to change from walking past those placards to living them, or how in within the team?
Speaker 2:Uh. Yeah, man, that's. That's like uh. It's been a huge part of my life in the last couple of years of uh. I think that you know our our uh operations coordinator brought it up one day and it just hit me so hard in the face. It's like you can show up and suck. You just have to make sure you show up, type of thing. He was listening to a podcast, lila. It's so hard to cite every place we get our information from these days.
Speaker 1:There's so much information coming from all angles, right.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. There's this, the Hormozy couple. I think yeah.
Speaker 1:Layla Hormozy.
Speaker 2:That's where he got. That was like it's okay to suck, but don't not show up, right. And when I started accepting that, just like and it did kind of evolve from going to the gym, you know that it's like I just wasn't happy with the level of fitness and the amount of time that I was spending taking care of me, my own brain, my own body, my own, my own spirit, my mind and and I said you know, I can, I can, you know, blame, I can point fingers or say, hey, you know, like it's this circumstance or it's that condition or whatever it might be that keeps me from taking care of me, that I can, you know, ascribe that to, or I can just get it done right. And when I started looking at that and taking account again, not everything that happened during the previous era was bad, you know, like there was a tremendous agent for change, that, uh, that that affected our company, that that we just wouldn't be where we are without that, and so I don't look back on it with any bitterness, I look on it with a great deal of gratitude, um, uh, that we were able to experience that, but it was.
Speaker 2:It was the just show up, just do the work again. Like just think about it. It's like we, you know, like you have to fail, you've got to have a mistake rate, you've got to have all this stuff, otherwise you're not moving Right. Like, um, uh, I don't know why we fear failure so much. I don't know why I feared it. I can't even answer the why, I just know the what. And now I'm over it. I don't, I don't, I'm not worried about it, I don't, I don't even think about it, it's just like let's get out right the acceptance of of problems, right Like there's going to be problems.
Speaker 1:That's what we're in business to do is solve these problems, like with that shift in mindset of we're just going to go work on it and we're going to continue to work on it, and then we're going to continue, and then we're going to work on it some more, and then we're going to work on it a little bit more. All of a sudden, things start moving in that, in that, in that direction, and momentum gets built. Have you started to feel the moment when, what, what, what was the momentum shift?
Speaker 2:to feel the moment. When, what, what? What was the momentum shift? When did you feel that the momentum shift was when we allowed?
Speaker 2:I was just having this conversation with one of our guys not very long ago about, like you know, x, y and z. Things are going to happen during the day, stuff that we didn't plan for is going to occur, stuff that completely blindsides us is going to be there. So what Do it anyway? Just go, go, go. It's like no matter what, we're always going to prevail and we're always going to succeed. And it's like once you make up your decision, once you make up your mind about that, that's how things are going to go. Then none of the rest of it matters anymore. It just doesn't. When we let ourselves off the hook and I've heard and again, where did it come from? Fail fast, right, like just get after it and go.
Speaker 2:That's been the change and it's been largely this year, a really good retention in our employees going from the 2023 year into the 2024 season, and it gave everybody an opportunity. You know, we had gone through a phase during that previous era where we were starting almost starting over every single year with an entirely new staff, and when people realize that they're not, that their job isn't on the line just because they're going after it. Maybe they make mistakes, maybe they don't do everything the way that they would have liked to have seen it done. When they realize that all the leadership team has got their back, when we're all growing and working together, it just opens up this entirely new realm of possibilities in people's mind. And we had really good retention going into 2024 season.
Speaker 2:People hit the ground running. I mean, we had an awesome opportunity that happened in January or February where sales just went through the roof because of some really wicked weather that we experienced here. And the truth is is that if we would have been in the middle of training an entirely new staff, like we'd done season after season before that, we would not have been able to capitalize on that opportunity. And then, once we did capitalize on that opportunity and we did a big debrief at the end of a crazy storm season in January, february of last year or, excuse me, of 2024, then it gave us the opportunity to go like man and look at all the stuff that we learned and it just boosted the enthusiasm and the level of confidence within our team to such a degree that the guys just crushed it this year.
Speaker 2:They just absolutely crushed it. I'm so proud and it's crazy, because it is just that we just showed up right, like, like we're, we're training our people, the guys are getting good experience, but, jim, we're only doing about this much of the stuff, right, that is out of this much potential, and yet we're still blessed with this incredible outcome of the year just because we're focused on the, you know, like the system, the process, and investing in our people and investing in the company. And it's just, it's been an amazing year.
Speaker 1:That's a big challenge in the roofing industry is that year over year change in team and you know what advice would you give to an owner that that day, jim, I can remember it, man, waking up and going like somebody isn't going to make a difference.
Speaker 2:Something's not going to change on its own. I have to decide. I've got to be the one, I've got to be the person who, on this day, decides. We're never going to be the same this day. Moving forward, I'm going to take the responsibility, I'm going to own this to that owner who is like man I can't seem to get out of this cycle. You got to start. I had to start with one thing and go. This is our standard, these are our rules, these are the values that we said we're going to live by. And one person, by one person, one day by day. You're investing in that set of values and saying, hey, if I do this, if I exemplify what it is that I claim to be, I'm going to have more people that want to stay.
Speaker 2:And as a leader, I you know another piece of it I'm not big on giving advice, because I feel like it's worth what you pay for it. So for anybody listening here, it is, it's free, but it's like I don't tell anybody to do anything. I say follow me. And when I'm the one that's willing to go out there and knock doors, when I'm the one that's willing to go out there and get on a roof when it's cold or it's windy or it's whatever. You know, the guys are like, hey, we don't know how to do this, I'm not going to tell you, I'm going to show you.
Speaker 2:Um, despite the fact that we're, you know, at a pretty high level in the roofing space, you know, I would imagine we're in the upper single digit percentage, you know, for what is, you know, the roofing companies in Omaha, and I still go to work. I go to work every single day and, uh, and it's because I love it, I love it and I love my people, you know. And so, uh, that that would be the advice that I would give. Is it like you got to decide about one thing? Uh, one of those, one of those success principles, if you will, is to invest and to adhere to the system, stick to a process, trust it, and uh, and you will have people follow you into battle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's the standards that get set need to be withheld or upheld.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Right, it reminds me I have nine-year-old twin boys. There'll be 10 here soon, Boy if I'm not consistent in the standards that we have in our household, because they're testing those standards all day, every day.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like you know, I used to be in a previous life. I worked in law enforcement, I was a canine handler, and something that you just said is also something that I have really dialed down on in the last couple of years, and that is kind of what I alluded to just a moment ago about. Like you know, I don't say you guys need to do this and you guys need to do that. You gals need to be responsible for this. It's like follow me right and what I mean by that when it comes to you and your boys and you know my kids are all grown up and gone away now, you know but it's the same principle and I remember those days and I look back on them, just like with a lot of love. But it's like we have to recognize we are always training.
Speaker 2:Every single thing that you do the way you back out of the driveway, the way that you pull into the parking lot at work, the way you dress, the way that you talk, the way that you carry yourself, the way that you act when you're at a company function or at a sponsored event every single thing that you do.
Speaker 2:You're always training your people. Like you might think, nobody's around, nobody's watching, nobody saw anything. But if a piece of paper blows out of a truck and I go running across the parking lot to go pick that thing up because I'm not going to have it blow against our fence and stay there, then this is something that actually happened. And I look up and one of my employees is watching and I'm like, ah, that was a key moment. Might not seem like that big of a deal, but just like with you and your boys, you know, if you tell the kids like hey, pick up your socks, you tell them one time, right, like it's time to pick up the socks, it's time to get them put away. And it's like those little things, the small things. What's it say in the Bible that the, that's the small foxes that spoil the vineyard, right, it's those little things that sometimes you might think it's not that big of a deal. But man, jim, we're always training 24 seven.
Speaker 1:Always, nonstop. And in that, in that same vein, you know what both of us share a love for combat sports, and you know kickboxing and MMA and things like that, and and that those are, those are disciplines, that that that there is no end to right, there's always someone who will punch you in your face, and so so you better keep you, gotta better keep this evolution of yourself going Right. If you, if you, if you take a break, uh boy, you're going to get punched in the face.
Speaker 2:Or you know, like, that You're going to get punched in the face anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's, and there's a, there's a good lesson to be learned from that.
Speaker 2:You know. It's like, you know, crazy stuff's going to happen, mistakes are going to be made, failures are going to occur, but it's like you got to stay in the fight, right, and that is certainly an attitude. Young troopers that were coming in uh and they're in the uh, going through their bootcamp, right, and I and I would ask people in the beginning of that class it's like, okay, how many of you have never been punched in the face before? You know, and you'd get like four or five hands that would come up and it's like, oh, then today is going to suck for you. You know, because you're going to get punched in the face, right, and that's the thing that we have to remember.
Speaker 2:Is that, like it's, it's, you know, the combat sports thing, you know, for people who aren't into that and don't care to use golf as an example, right, like you're never going to conquer that game. There's always room for improvement and something you can do to get better. But I love that. That mixed martial arts or the Muay Thai reference that you use is because there are days when you feel like you get punched in the face and it doesn't matter, keep going anyway, right. And when the organization recognized that, I got their back. And I don't care if somebody got punched in the face today, we're still going to keep moving Then, all of a sudden, you know, it's just like it's a whole new game. A whole new game.
Speaker 1:I think another great mentality from from from combat sports is the respect for stepping in the ring. Yeah Right, and that's, to me, is where you're talking about that showing up every day Like we're going to show up, like there's a level of respect to your team that should be given for showing up. Today Now we're going to talk about the level of performance that's there and help coach them to be able to dodge that punch here and there.
Speaker 2:Let's slip that.
Speaker 1:Let's not take all the jabs to the face. Let's learn how to parry Like let's. Let's start to, let's start to develop skillsets right. Let's have better sales conversations, better customer conversations. Let let let's have our production processes be more efficient and refined. Let let let let's continue to evolve this. Yeah, you know what are some of those things that you've done in your training process with your company that you feel have has led to a good impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, let's, let's continue on with the, with the analogy that we're using, like in the. You know the mixed martial arts world, or you know combat sports generally, um, or uh, or golf, it's like you know, find a trainer, you know, find somebody who, who is proficient at a level you know, much higher than you, uh, draw from several resources, uh, so that you're getting a good mix of input. And then, you know, allow, afford an opportunity for every single person in the company to participate at some level. Give them support, give them some feedback. I do love the. You know that.
Speaker 2:You know you brought up about, like the whole, the respect within the industry. You know, expose yourself, get in a position. Don't go to where you know a yourself, get in a. Get in a position. Don't go to where you know a bunch of people go to get, get together and get drunk and call it a mastermind. You know, go to an organization and to an environment where people are all there of the same mindset, of the same purpose. You know, like the last, the last Muay Thai fight that I did, I lost, I was some, you could even say I got my butt kicked right, but it's like that respect that's in the industry, that's in the game, is that like? The next day after that, you know, I sat with my opponent at a table. We had an amazing day, an amazing conversation. I developed a friendship with a guy that I had never met before before meeting in the ring, and to this day we still keep up with each other a little bit, you know, and it's like that's the kind of thing when you get exposed yourself to the. You know like you set that standard. We talked about those values.
Speaker 2:Find people in the industry. You know, don't listen to people who you look at their life and go like, well, there's nothing that I want that that guy's got or nothing that I, that I see that that lady has accomplished that has any appeal to me whatsoever. Well then, don't spend your time around those people. Right, like it's. It's no different, I suppose, than than if you're, you know like, say, somebody has got a drug or an alcohol problem, it's like you probably don't want to go hang out in the bar with people. Then, right Like. Or if you, or if you eat too much, maybe being a cook might not be the best job for you, right, so like find people in the industry that you aspire to be like.
Speaker 2:you know people who can you know like a coach, if you will just by being around some people. I don't have to pay every single coach that I get great influence from. I find people who are doing what I want to do, who are building organizations like we want to build, and so it's like putting myself in the same environment of those people and taking my team with me when I do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is in the people you surround yourself with. You made a good point of you know who do you want to be around, right? Do you want to go to the, you know, to the event that just everyone's just getting drunk? And what kind of value are you going to take for your business in that type of situation versus a situation where people are working on their businesses, they're looking for improvement, they're sharing, they're helping. Those are the healthy environments, right, that's right. You also, earlier in the conversation, it sounded like there may have been some of that within your team, a disconnect in your team from that cultural standpoint. I think you said something like to the effect of if you don't want to go and have dinner with them or something right, maybe they're not the right person for your team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I feel like this kind of this same.
Speaker 1:it kind of lines up in the same, it goes in the same lane Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all in the same vein, for sure, Absolutely. And that was. You know it's a maturity thing, it's a growth thing, it is a you know, if I hadn't exposed myself to what I know I don't like, then I wouldn't have then had the opportunity, and you know, and getting that, you know it's a decision that.
Speaker 2:I had to make. And yeah, you know you decide not only who you want to align yourself with and who you want to spend your time with outside your business. That's exactly what I meant was that if I'm going to, if I'm going to spend the time, the energy, the money, the effort, everything that it takes to go out there and and to and to help myself and other people in our company grow, why in the world would I allow something that undermines all that and and that negative energy and and all that I mean like man. You know I've been doing this for a long, long time. We have a building. We've got this. You know, I bought an acre of of ground and a nice building right in the middle of Omaha and it's like we've invented.
Speaker 2:It's not to be boastful, it's to say how much we've invested in our future here and what we've, how much we've poured into what we hope to accomplish, and it's like we made this place into a haven. This is where, when all of our people go out in the field and you know the people in customer service have got to go out and deal with the customer maybe that something didn't go quite well with, or maybe our sales. People are out and they're working in a neighborhood where they got doors slamming their faces, or people are telling them to get off their porch and what have you. It's like. This is the place that I want people to be able to come back to and recharge their batteries and get energized.
Speaker 2:This is a haven, like every single thing about this, every element. Again, it's the little things that make the difference. I want the people who work for our organization to know that this is the place where they can come back here and get support, where they can plug in to all the positive stuff that we have from the external being pumped in and from the internal being pushed out. Why would I allow somebody to come in here and take a crap in the middle of my floor? I'm not going to let that happen, and sorry about that crude reference, but like that's the truth, man, I'm not letting anybody come in here and create an environment that is anything but the best thing that we've ever possibly worked for. This is hallowed ground and I believe in it very strongly.
Speaker 1:It's. Do you feel like I mean you've been doing this a long time, I mean pretty much your whole life, right Like, has been spent in this industry or you know in some sort of in some way, and you know, I feel like it's hard for people early on in business to hold that type of standard? Do you think that you had some of those issues as an earlier on, early entrepreneur?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, early, middle in the end. You know like, yeah for sure. You know, like, like you know, it doesn't really matter when you know whether it's early, whether it's in the middle, whether it's towards the end of your career. But yeah, I've been doing this kind of stuff my whole life. I always joke about that. You know I've done everything wrong at least three times, right Like it's been. You know I started roofing, you know, when I was just a very, very young kid. You know, like my dad and and uh uh and his business partner had a, had a uh uh company and and uh. You know me and my best friend from high school, uh, the other guy's son, who's the same age as me. You know, man, we, we were doing construction work. You know, before high school, um, uh and. So, yes, I've been in the industry for a long, long time.
Speaker 2:But there's a difference between being a professional and just being around the game, right Like, you go watch pro golf or you can be one of those guys that's out there. You know, on the course, right Like, and and. And. You know like we don't all have to be like like there's. There's no point in being upset about that if you're not operating at the level that you know that I hope to be like Like I just have to let myself off the hook and go like, hey, I'm getting better every day, and as long as I'm committed to that, then it doesn't really matter where I'm at, it's where I'm going, that makes the difference, and I still feel that way even now. It's where I'm going that makes the difference, and I still feel that way even now. You know, like I feel like I've got a lot of improvement to make and that we as a team again you know, I gave you the scale before we're just this much stuff that we're finally starting to be able to look back on and go like, hey, we did that, we set up a process, we created a system and we and we effected it. We've pulled it off this year just as much, and look what we were blessed with. Anyway, you would think that like just that much, where sometimes you might get discouraged and go like, man, it's only this much. What difference does it really make? Oh, it makes all the difference in the world. It makes every bit of difference, Just that little bit where the whole team can look back and go we did that much that.
Speaker 2:One way, I remember listening to a pastor one time that was talking about how he was sitting at a football game. I'm going to get this story all jacked up. But he was sitting at this football game and the guy's sons, I think, were out there on the field and the one didn't get a chance to play very often, right? But something happened on a special team. This guy had been coming to all of his dad's games, or all of his son's games, forever, and he gets in a special team. They kick off the ball and it goes right to his son. He catches the ball, he takes one step to the left, one step to the right, one step to the right, stands there and the whole team tackles him Right and the dad looks over at the companion in the stage. He goes man, did you see those two good moves, you know?
Speaker 1:and it's just like you got to focus your attention on the positive, right, like we did that one.
Speaker 2:You know we stuck to this much of the system this year, and wow, what an amazing year. You know we stuck to this much of the system this year, and wow, what an amazing year. So when we start doing this much or this much, I mean, the potential is just mind boggling, right?
Speaker 1:So, man, that's what I've got to look forward to. Yeah, it's fun to. One of my favorite things in business is in those continuous iterations. It's so cool to look back and go like I look back in business at some some of the businesses I've been in and I'm like people actually bought something from us. Like how did they, how did someone, even how did someone even buy from us?
Speaker 1:But the reason I could say that now is because of all of those small iterations that we've made along the way to now we're in such a different place. We're in a professional league now. Right, it was, we were playing little league and now we're pros. Right, like we've made it all the way and like, wow, how did I even like, how did this even happen? But it's that constant iteration, but it's allowing yourself to continuously iterate. It's allowing yourself to not have the procrastination of fear, right, like the fear of moving forward, the fear of of getting that right. You're going to make the grace that you talk about in allowing yourself to make mistakes, right, like the like let's just allow these mistakes to come. Let's create a process in our lives that we're going to continuously iterate on these mistakes that we're making. We're going to learn from some. Some are going to be harder to learn from right. Like it may take a little longer to learn from some other things. You said that your job now is to do the hard stuff. What's the hard stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the hard meetings, right Like, it's just, you know, giving my people an opportunity, giving all of.
Speaker 2:I've got to be the grown-up, I've got to be the responsible person I've got to be. You know, hey, I'm cultivating an environment here, jim, where we got a lot of people who are growing, who are moving into leadership positions. But, again, just like I said before, follow me right Like, I've got to set the example that the hard decisions that have to be made and you got to let somebody go because they're not doing what they were hired for, and you've given an opportunity, you put them on that PIP, you know the performance improvement plan, and gave them steps along the way, and they just, you know, it's like some of those, some of those decisions don't feel good. Right Like, I've got to be the guy that has that meeting though that was not a feel good meeting when I had to let somebody go but, uh, but that's the one, that's the example I need to set and that's a thing that needs to occur. I've got to be the guy who says, hey, the hard meetings, I got these.
Speaker 2:You guys get after it and make the company grow and do your thing. And uh, you know, it's it's. It's incredible to me what you were talking about just moments ago. I was just having a conversation two days ago with you know, or I said like I can't believe that I'm still in business, you know, and the comment was like still in business Dude, you guys are I mean look at all this, you guys are killing it.
Speaker 2:I'm like well, yeah, I guess so. But it's like you know, you get there by doing the hard things, making the hard decisions, making that tough call once in a while, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's part of it. Right, it's all part of it, and we have to sign up for what we sign up for. If you sign up to be the CEO of your company company, that's the hard job. It's not just a title and the income that comes with a CEO title right, there are duties to being the CEO.
Speaker 2:You want to be a CEO because you're thinking about a big paycheck and you're thinking about that's what I meant before about having to make a change because of you know, a person on the team having to have that constant affirmation, the need to, you know, like, look towards external things to prove that something's been accomplished.
Speaker 2:It's like if you got the job to be a CEO because you wanted the power, because you wanted the money, because you wanted to have the influence or be able to take it to a stage or whatever that might be, man, you're in that spot for the wrong reason because, truthfully, being a CEO is actually the hardest job in the company.
Speaker 2:And, uh, and it's because I'm responsible for everything, right Like, I can delegate my authority to the people within our company and empower them to do what they got to do, but ultimately, the responsibility for every single thing that happens in this business that lies. That comes back to me. Right Like it's it's my name that went on this thing. I'm the one that endorsed this. I'm the one that signed off on it. I'm the one who said, yeah, this is what we're doing, and the guys and gals who are making it happen here. If they don't do something right, then that is a reflection directly on leadership and that comes back to me, because they're going after it right, like I gave them the authority and the ability to do that and it's my responsibility as a leader to make sure it's getting done the right way.
Speaker 1:Have you had thoughts around legacy over the last few years? Is that something that has come? I'm starting to hear a lot of that. What, what is your? Yeah, what, what do you? Let me? Let me, let me just give you a strip. What do you hope your legacy will be?
Speaker 2:My legacy, you know, like if, if, if, at my funeral, jim, somebody stands up and says, man, that dude invested in me and made a difference in my life, then it was all worth it. Right, that's the legacy, that's it. There's nothing more, there's nothing less. To it it's like nobody's going to, nobody cares. You know my kids, right Like. They're never going to remember what car I drove, but they are going to remember the times when I was there, when I was present, when I, you know, flew to Europe to go visit my daughter, or when I drove out to California to go help my son move, when he had these dreams and ambitions, and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:That's the kind of stuff when it comes to legacy, it's all I care about, right, like the people in this company, I look at them the same as my children. You know like I invest in them. Nobody gives a hoot about how much money we made. What's the bottom line? It's like did he invest in me and did he make a change in my life and give me an opportunity to grow and be everything that I could possibly be? When it comes to my wife, she really doesn't care the kind of house that we live in. She wants to know whether or not I'm going to be there. When I say I'm going to be home, you know, and it's like that's the kind of stuff that you know, that legacy thought process, that man, it's all I think about these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a big shift in mindset, I think, to actually start to look at legacy and make it a part of your day-to-day reality, the thought of that, like it's a big, it's a big mindset shift, right and and and I don't think, I think it's hard to think about legacy. Like we said, there's I think there's so many things hard in business early on that you, you just, you're just trying to survive, right, and then, and then you reach an era where you're thriving and in that era is more where I think you could start to take those reflections. But, looking back, if you were to do it all over again, what advice would you give yourself?
Speaker 2:do it again. Right, Like I can look back and talk about regrets, bad decisions, but it's like, what did I say when we started this conversation? You got to let yourself off the hook. Just do it. Just show up. I have I.
Speaker 2:Actually, I can truthfully say that if I had my life to do it all over again, Jim, I'd do it the exact same way, because I just don't think I would be the person that I am now and I don't think I'd be able to provide what I can provide for the people who I've surrounded myself with had I not had all the experiences. You know the. I mean like doggone it. I've had some great opportunity in this life that some of it I've just pissed away, you know, and it's like and it was that being on the fence, it was the. I'm not sure what I want to do. I'm not sure why I was doing this. How, why did I even get started? You know, it's like did I want to be able to buy a nice house? Was I looking towards a fancy car? Was I, you know? I don't know. It's a level of maturity that you get to, though, where you start to recognize what are the most important things that are going on in your life, right, what are the most important things that you have in life? I was just listening to a podcast this morning. It's like, if you knew that you were going to die in 24 hours, how would you spend that time? And it's like, yeah, I would surround myself with the people that I've got in my life right now. It's like, wow, that's, that's pretty amazing. You know, like, that's what, what an incredible blessing is that I wouldn't go out and run somewhere else or do something else. I'd spend it with the people that I've got in my life right now. And and if that's the case, you know like, just do that exercise, Just go like if you went into the doctor and the doctor told you that you were going to die Doggone I'm not going to get this right because it was, you know, again from a podcast, but it was a, it was, it was a quote, and I want to give credit where credit's due because I didn't think of this, credit where credit's due because I didn't think of this.
Speaker 2:It was about Stephen Hawking, who you know, arguably is one of the, you know, the greatest minds of our time, who you know he was afflicted, you know, in his early years, like at age 20 or 21 or something like that, with this incredible disease and it's like he was supposed to be dead. So he was actually ultimately grateful for being alive. And a lot of people would look at that and go like, you know, what a terrible life, right, but he didn't see it that way, because he was still alive when he was supposed to be still dead. And it's like and whatever that is that you conjure up, it's like, if I only had 24 hours to live, what would I do? Well then, do that, Do it today, Take the rest of the day off and just do whatever you would do if you only had 24 hours.
Speaker 1:Awesome, patrick. This has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast. For more valuable content, visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom While there, check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tips. Also join the Roofing Success Facebook group to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest trends. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry insights. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening you.
